Watchman on the Wall

Guest (Male): Welcome to Watchman on the Wall, a daily outreach of Southwest Radio Ministries and swrc.com. God is still on the throne and prayer changes things. Pastor and author Tom Elliff is back today with more insight into how you and I can truly have a passion for prayer.

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You'll find digital books and teaching resources with even more being added. This is a big step forward for SWRC, making it easier than ever to take a solid biblical teaching with you wherever you go. DVDs can now be accessed digitally. Videos: digital. It's all there for you, so don't wait. Check it out today. Go to swrc.com, click Downloads, and discover the brand-new digital download section. That's swrc.com. Now, here's our host, Dr. Larry Spargimino.

Larry Spargimino: This is Pastor Larry. We're back with Tom Elliff. We're talking about prayer, about Tom Elliff's book, *A Passion for Prayer: Experiencing Deeper Intimacy with God*. On the back cover, there's an endorsement by Charles Stanley and also an endorsement by Henry Blackaby, bestselling author of *Experiencing God*, a tremendous book, by the way. Tom Elliff has pastored for 42 years. He served with the International Mission Board for two terms. He has been president of the Southern Baptist Convention. Thank you, Tom, for being our guest once again. Yesterday's show was great. I know this is also going to be a great show as well, so good to have you again.

Tom Elliff: Thanks, Larry. I'm looking forward to what God has for us in the next few minutes.

Larry Spargimino: Well, we were talking about recovering our intimacy with God. I'll give the quote again: "Whatever the cause, it is disturbing to sense in ourselves or others a growing hardness of heart and an accompanying helplessness to recover it." Kind of pick up where you were yesterday. This is a big topic and a very important one.

Tom Elliff: Larry, a good marriage requires intentionality. It requires work. It requires honesty, openness, and a good relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ requires the very same thing. We don't just coast along and say, "Okay, I'm saved. I have this responsibility," whatever it is, it may be in some kind of ministry, it may be something else, and you are a wonderful Christian person though you want to walk with God. In intimacy, it takes work.

If you talk to a couple that seems to have that kind of intimacy, they'll tell you this didn't come by just waking up in the morning and falling out of bed. This took some moments of real confession and repentance. This took some moments where we had to humble ourselves and ask for forgiveness. This took some moments where we bared our soul before one another and asked the Lord to speak to our heart. Well, you can't have intimacy with Christ without the very same thing. We are his bride, he is the groom. It deserves every bit of attention that we give to our marriage and maybe even more so. And by the way, it'll do more for your marriage than you think if you have intimacy with Christ anyway, so why not start there?

Larry Spargimino: Right, absolutely. I'm kind of jumping around a bit, but one of the questions I'd like to ask is that some parents ask their kids to say the blessing before meals. Of course, sometimes the child is very small or has not made a profession of faith. How do you feel about that, Pastor Tom?

Tom Elliff: I feel all right. It depends on the setting. Every grace and gift of the Christian life is something that we begin schooling children in from the earliest of days when we can communicate with them. We learn to sit up straight or say "please" or say "thank you." And so we start schooling that child in terms of life.

A man told me one time, he said, "Well, God doesn't hear a prayer of a person who's not saved." I said, "What about the prayer 'God, save me'?" He said, "Oh, I hadn't thought about that." Well, I said we're none of us perfect. We're all on a path. My wife and I have six children and their spouses. We have 33 grandchildren, and now we just got news that our 33rd great-grandchild is in the hangar and on the way, so we're just getting started here. We have a little experience with children.

As I said, I call them gifts and graces. It should come as no surprise to a child what prayer is. That child, he or she, should have witnessed it in his mother's life, in his father's life. And in doing so, what's a child going to do? "Oh, I want to do that. Well, why can't I?" Well, you can't sit down and talk to a five-year-old about sanctification. That discussion is going to come at some other time.

But you are going to talk with them about, "Well, we need to tell God that there's sin in our life and we want him to help us." By the time a child comes to know Christ as Savior, that discipline should not come as a surprise to that child anymore than any of the other graces or the gifts of the Christian life should be a surprise. They should have seen that lived out, played out before them in the lives of their parents.

What do children want to do? They want to be like Mom and Dad. I understand what might be at the heart of a question like that is what about praying if you don't know the Lord Jesus as your Savior, but there is a time when a parent knows it's time to explain to my child what this is all about. But I don't think that a parent is winning anything, gaining any ground by saying to a child, "Well, you can't pray yet."

How are they going to grasp that? How are they going to understand that? And besides that, Jesus said, "Unless you come to me like a child, you shall not know what is in here." I'd say let's all go to church as a family and let's pray together.

Larry Spargimino: Amen, wonderful insight. You know, for a lot of parents, they struggle with that. But let's move on. What about fasting and prayer? Now, in Mark 9:29, Jesus told his disciples that deliverance from certain kinds of demonic entities can only come about through fasting and prayer.

Tom Elliff: It's pretty simple. I don't need to go into an explanation of what kind of fasting. There are different kinds of fasting. We don't necessarily need to talk about that, but we do need to talk about what Jesus said. He said that there are some arenas in which you're not going to find success unless it receives your concerted attention and this issue becomes more important to you than something that's less important like eating, for instance, if you're talking about fasting from food.

I think it's quite obvious that God calls us. Let me give you an illustration. This might be a better illustration. There's a difference between intercessory prayer and just regular prayer. You know, we pray for somebody and pray that God will bless them and bless their family, pray that God will give them good health. You mean every bit of that.

But in some instances, someone falls into a situation that so grabs your heart that God himself puts it on your heart and says, "This person is your prayer responsibility." Then you begin interceding for them. You almost think of it as you're standing between that person and God and you're crying out to God on behalf of that person, urging God to reach out and move in power by his spirit and urging that person to turn to the Lord.

In the midst of that, this should have certainly, if God has called you to stand in that position as an intercessor, that certainly God's call on your life should certainly lay greater claim on you than a lot of other things, including some things which just become natural. I know some people eat with supernatural belief, but I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that there's sometimes when something becomes more important than food or water.

Jesus, at the outset of his ministry, how did he begin? Fasting. That's how he started. He prayed and he fasted. And it was then that Satan came and tested him, body, soul, and spirit, but he was coming out of this time where he had prayed and fasted for these days. So he was ready for that. So that's how I would see what that means, and that is that it has become on your heart something more important to you than even eating.

Larry Spargimino: Right, right. Well, let's talk a little bit about unanswered prayer. God can say yes, no, or not yet. And of course, most Christians are praying earnestly for something, yet there's been no breakthrough. As a pastor, sometimes a family is dealing with unanswered prayer. How do you handle a situation of unanswered prayer? What would your counsel, your pastoral advice, be to a family who's struggling with something? They've prayed about it and they're good people, they love the Lord, they serve him, but nothing seems to be happening. What would you say?

Tom Elliff: Well, first of all, I think that the Lord, we say that he can say yes, no, or wait a while, but he can say nothing. He can be awesomely quiet. I would say that in all of those instances, what we want to do is to pray in concert with God.

I find that this time when you're praying when it seems like nothing is happening, for instance right now, I am praying for a young man. My heart goes out. I pray daily for him. I'm praying that he'll come to Christ. Nothing is happening and you say, "Well, Lord, you know what's the issue here?" Well, it may not be me. It may not be my praying. It may be that God is dealing with him in a way that I do not know about. I'm sure he is, and bringing him some other or more circuitous route.

But I want to agree with God. And so that's where Bible study links up with Scripture because as I pore over the Word of God day after day, I say, "God, speak to my heart." And very often the Lord will say, "All right, this is my word." For instance, he may say, "I assure you that he'll be saved." He may say, "You need to go and do the following." You may see an exemplar or read a story in the Scripture or get a sentence or a direct command and God is telling you, "Do this."

And so as you're interceding for someone and it seems like it's been a long, long time, don't give up. Ask the Lord. Ask the Lord until he, and he may say to you at some point, and he has said to me on occasions, "This is a settled issue and you don't need to meddle in it any longer. You just rejoice that I'm going to do what I plan to do."

But often if I don't have that, I just keep asking the Lord until he shows me. He'll give me a passage of Scripture at some point along the way, speak by his spirit through the Word. I always like to think of it this way: the plans of God are revealed to the man or woman of God by the Spirit of God through the Word of God. Now, once that happens, my responsibility is to reach out, take God's hand, and cooperate with him. That would be my approach, I think.

Guest (Male): Well, friends, to get your own copy of *Passion for Prayer*, please call 1-800-652-1144. The book addresses several critical concern issues: the perils of prayerlessness, persevering prayer, prayer and fasting, intercessory prayer, prayer in times of temptation, and many other subjects. This is a must-read book for every Christian. 1-800-652-1144.

Larry Spargimino: Tom, what can we learn about prayer from Genesis 32? It is a most unusual scene of Jacob wrestling with a man. The patriarch struggles all night, but Jacob comes to understand that he is wrestling with the Lord. Does that happen to us? Is there some analogy, some point of instruction for us today even as men and women of prayer?

Tom Elliff: Well, I think we have taken this ride on a circuitous route and we're back where we started. And that is that God's desire for us is to come to the place where if I could get to the point in my life where all I wanted for my life was simply all he wanted for me, then all my life I'd have all I wanted and he'd have all of me he wanted. I think that's the lesson there.

And of course, as we wrestle with the Lord in prayer, and we use that word sometimes failing to understand that it is more intense sometimes than physical. In fact, sometimes it can become almost physical. I'm not talking about boxing with somebody, but it can be absolutely exhausting because God's desire, he is at work, the Scripture says, working within us by his spirit. He's doing this that both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

That's his purpose. He wants to conform us to the image of his dear Son. And so that means that constantly from now until the time we meet him face to face, there are going to be moments in which he'll say, "This is who I am. This is what I'm doing," and we learn to say, "Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. I agree."

Larry Spargimino: Well, Tom, let's talk a little bit about intercessory prayer. On page 146, you write, "There is a difference between simply praying for people and true intercession." What's the difference?

Tom Elliff: Well, I think it's a matter of position, Larry. In the first place, there are a lot of people for whom I make a petition. For instance, as a pastor or as a missionary, people come and say, "Would you pray with me for so-and-so that they come to know Christ?" Well, sure. Let's pray that right now. I usually ask them that. I ask them if they are praying, and if I'm not going to do what they're supposed to do, but then I'll say, "Okay, tell me their name. You're praying. All right, let's pray right here."

That way I don't forget because when you go to a meeting, a lot of people ask you, "Pray for me. Pray for my wife. Pray for my husband." That's a petition. "God, bless this person. God, touch this man or woman's life. God, reach out with your healing hand." That's a petition.

But then intercession is different. Christ is our intercessor. He did not just pray for us, he positioned himself between the loving but righteous and just heavenly Father and us. And on behalf of us, he died. He shed his blood because he knew that without the shedding of blood, the life, there would be no remission of sin.

And so I believe there are people in our lives about whom the Lord would speak on occasion, and he would say to us, "Now, this is a person I don't want you just to pray for them. I want you to intercede for them." And I want you to ask the Lord, stand before me. And what you're doing, you're doing like a loving mother would or a loving father would, "Oh God, let my son live one more day so that he might come under the conviction of your Holy Spirit." And you're taking a position between the person for whom you're praying and the just, merciful God of the universe.

Larry Spargimino: Well, as we wrap up this second program, one question I did want to really ask, and that is in view of the Lord's imminent return, how should that impact our prayer life?

Tom Elliff: To me, this is the most exciting subject and the most exciting aspect of prayer because in light of the imminence of the Lord's return, that should shape my prayer. That forms my prayer. Let me give you an illustration. You have company coming. They're going to come at a certain time and you know they're going to show up because they're always prompt.

As that time approaches, you find yourself, "Okay, checking around. Okay, is everything right here? Okay, we got this over here. All right, is the barbecue grill heat? All right, we got," you're checking everything just to make sure that everything is as it ought to be to welcome those people when they show up. You don't just sit there and with your legs crossed starting early in the morning and sip Coca-Cola until they show up at seven o'clock in the evening. You're moving about, getting things gussied up, ready, as my mother used to say.

Well, how do we do that? We do that through prayer. We do that through witnessing. We do that through sharing. We do that through giving. We do it in so many ways. But especially the discipline, and prayer is a discipline, especially in the discipline for "even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Larry Spargimino: Wow, that's a beautiful, beautiful illustration. Yes, what a glorious thought and of course as we look at the signs of the times and what's going on in our country and all the world, we need to be praying, we need to be all ready for when the trumpet sounds. Well, thank you, Pastor Tom Elliff, for your life and ministry and for these two shows. And it's a great blessing for me to share the pulpit with you from time to time, and I'm sure all of our church is greatly blessed. So God bless you in a rich and wonderful and mighty way.

Guest (Male): Let me ask you something. How's your prayer life? Not how often you say a quick prayer before a meal or ask God for help when something goes wrong, but how much time are you really spending talking with God, listening to him, and seeking his presence?

In *A Passion for Prayer*, Pastor Tom Elliff helps us rediscover the power, privilege, and necessity of prayer in the life of every believer. Drawing from Scripture and years of personal experience, Pastor Elliff offers practical biblical principles that can help move prayer from something we simply know we should do to something we genuinely desire to do.

If your prayer life has grown routine, if you've struggled to know what to pray, or if you simply hunger for a deeper relationship with God, friends, this book was written for you. Don't settle for a prayer life that's just going through the motions. Reignite your passion for spending time with God. Order *A Passion for Prayer* today. Go to swrc.com or call 1-800-652-1144. That's swrc.com or 1-800-652-1144. *A Passion for Prayer*. Order your copy today.

John Rue: For Watchman on the Wall, this is John Rue reporting. The Psalmist wrote, "Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain." In recent days, there have been interviews with and articles about Alexander Dugin, a Russian political philosopher and author.

An anti-communist in the 1980s, Dugin has become a powerful force. He is sometimes called Putin's brain because of that influence and has been drawing more attention as a possible ally of conservatives in the United States. Many people have touted his supposed belief in faith and traditional values.

However, in March of this year, Dugin posted on X, quote, "Enough with sectarian fractions. All Shia should join the final battle. All real Muslims also. It is a unique chance to achieve the victory over common enemy," close quote.

Ryan Mauro, a professor and senior fellow on counterterrorism at the Capital Research Center, reported that Dugin is helping to lead the waging of an ideological war in the same manner as Islamist governments, advocating for alliance between them and Russian Christian nationalists. Mauro says Dugin has been a point man for nearly 30 years, even writing a book about how to weaponize conspiracy theories. Now he promotes his own end-times prophecy that flips, preaching that Islam is correct along with its end-times messianic figure, the Mahdi, who will ally with the Katechon, a Greek term used by the Apostle Paul to describe he who restrains.

And this mystical figure will restrain the Antichrist, and the Antichrist they fight is Jewish, essentially Israel and the West. Mauro believes this new version of authoritarian Christianity backed and funded by the Russians through social media is coming to a church near you.

Bill Cloud, a Christian minister of Shoresh Ministries, who has appeared with speakers ranging from Jonathan Cahn to the late J.R. Church, founder of Prophecy in the News, described Mauro's report as an alarm that all should heed. Cloud wrote that within mainstream Christianity, there is a widely embraced belief that the Holy Spirit, our teacher and comforter according to John in the 14th chapter, also functions as the restrainer in this fallen world. That is to say, the spirit of God keeps evil in check, not allowing it to increase and expand beyond certain limits, lest the world be plunged into irreversible chaos. This being so, the belief that if spirit-filled people were removed from the earth entirely, either by extermination at the hands of men or extraction by heavenly means, theoretically there would be no resistance to evil.

Cloud added, the notion that the Holy Spirit would be removed, thus allowing for this time of trouble, is based largely on something Paul said in a letter to the believers at Thessalonica. Speaking of the last days, the Antichrist, and the return of the Messiah, he said, "Now you know what is restraining that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way, and then the lawless one will be revealed." That's in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

It is believed by many that he who now restrains is the Holy Spirit and who dwells in God's people. When he is taken out of the way, the Antichrist will be revealed. Cloud said Dugin's belief that Russian nationalists have been called upon by God to be the restrainer is troubling. He is convinced that he and his confederates are to wage holy war against satanic forces in the West. However, his efforts to facilitate a partnership with the Islamic world, which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the Jews, betray the fact that his intentions are unholy and extremely dangerous.

Cloud continued, he and his others maintain that they are on the side of good. Cloud continued, he and others mistakenly believe they are on the side of good. But so did Pharaoh and so did Hitler. They were wrong and so is Dugin and anyone else who positions themselves to oppose God's people and purpose. That he and others are zealous to come alongside Islamists to war against the West and the Jews has definite prophetic implications, Cloud said. In any event, the watchman must remain ever vigilant.

Guest (Male): When was the last time you truly prayed? Not just a hurried request, but spent meaningful time in the presence of God. In *A Passion for Prayer*, Pastor Tom Elliff challenges us to rediscover one of the most important and often most neglected disciplines of the Christian life. He shares biblical, practical principles that can help you deepen your relationship with God and strengthen your prayer life.

If your prayer life has become routine or if you simply long for something deeper, friends, this book is for you. Order *A Passion for Prayer* today. Go to swrc.com or call 1-800-652-1144. Don't just talk about prayer. Rediscover your passion for it. Order today, *A Passion for Prayer*. 1-800-652-1144.

Tomorrow, Josh Davis will share how you and I can make an eternal impact in Africa. Be sure to tune in. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful friends like you. To learn more, visit swrc.com.