Watchman on the Wall

Southwest Radio Ministries: Welcome to Watchman on the Wall, a daily outreach of Southwest Radio Ministries and swrc.com. God is still on the throne and prayer changes things. Today, we begin a two-day conversation with author Todd Hampson on all things Rapture-related.

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What does the Bible say about the Rapture? What is the proper approach to understanding Bible prophecy? What are the major views of the Rapture's timing? Best-selling author Todd Hampson joins Josh Davis to provide crucial insight into this important doctrine in part one of their two-part conversation.

Josh Davis: The doctrine of the Rapture is criticized and disputed by many people today. But when you take a close look at church history and the witness of Scripture, you will discover for yourself the clear reality of this future event and the profound impact it can have on your life in the present. Today, we are discussing the next in a wonderful series of books written and illustrated by author Todd Hampson. Todd, welcome back to Watchman on the Wall.

Todd Hampson: Josh, it is great to join you again. I have really been looking forward to it. I missed a few conferences this year, so we did not connect there. I was glad we could circle back and do this remotely. I am honored to join you.

Josh Davis: Correct me if I am wrong, this is the seventh in the series of the Non-Prophet's Guide series. Is that correct?

Todd Hampson: That is correct. It is the seventh and final one. We did not plan it that way, but seven is a great number, especially in eschatology. The Lord had some interesting plans there.

Josh Davis: Why did you choose the Rapture for that seventh and final book, that particular topic?

Todd Hampson: As you know, it takes a couple of years to write, illustrate, and get a book produced and released. With each book, we prayerfully look at what is going on in the world of prophecy and what is under attack. That has been the main thing I have been looking at the past couple of years.

Even just a couple of years ago when I first concepted this book, I noticed not just the pre-trib Rapture was under attack, but the doctrine of the Rapture itself. Something that had been a long-held, long-settled doctrine that I thought just about every believer held to, believed in, cherished, and looked forward to was under attack. That was the reason behind it.

As we will get into, I wanted to address some of the erroneous arguments against the pre-trib Rapture as well. I noticed a lot of believers, even ones that believe in the Rapture, did not really have a comprehensive understanding of how it fits into the overall picture of the Bible and eschatology. That was another reason behind it.

Josh Davis: I hope that we can clear up some of the confusion that people may have concerning the Rapture on today and tomorrow's program, including addressing some of these criticisms that are often leveled against the Rapture in general and the pre-tribulation Rapture view in particular, which our ministry has held to since its beginning. I know that you defend that doctrine in all of your works as well.

Let's just take a step back before we jump into all the content and explain the series a little bit. The Non-Prophet, for our radio listeners, that is spelled P-R-O-P-H-E-T, and The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture. What inspired you to include this character, the Non-Prophet? I call him a character because the book includes a lot of your unique illustrations, very well artistically laid out. Lots of graphics, lots of charts, and lots of special things included. Who is the Non-Prophet and what inspired you to create this character?

Todd Hampson: He is the comedy relief in the book. He is the Non-Prophet, meaning he gets prophecy wrong, and he is a terrible businessman. He is definitely the comedy relief. He is a day late and a dollar short. He is a character I came up with several years before the book concept, actually. I have a background in animation production and show development for Christian ministry.

He was a guy that I had been developing over the years but did not really know what to do with him. I was thinking about doing a comic strip with him but never got around to it. When book one came out, The Non-Prophet's Guide to the End Times, I thought he was a perfect segue to help put handles on a tough topic that people have questions about, that many believers are afraid to touch, or that they see as scary and intimidating.

At the time when I was concepting the book, most of the eschatology or end-times covers all had a mushroom cloud or a tank rolling over a hill. It was all this scary stuff, and understandably so. It is contextual. But I also knew that there were a lot of believers that were afraid to touch the topic because it seemed so scary. I wanted to take a different avenue and really disarm the topic. I wanted to draw them in with the art and the humor and then hit them with the great theology of what we know about eschatology.

Josh Davis: Even though you take something of a light-hearted approach using this particular character, the theology and the biblical basis of the book is anything but. You go very much in-depth into a lot of key issues that people need to understand about the Rapture in this particular volume. Friends, if you would like to get a copy of this book, The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture, you can give us a call at 1-800-652-1144. That is 1-800-652-1144. Or visit our website, swrc.com. Again, that is swrc.com.

Todd, why is it important that we talk about the Rapture? Why is it important that Christians understand what the Bible has to say about the Rapture? I know some people say, let's relegate that off. It is a secondary or a tertiary issue. It is not really worth our time and attention. It is a distraction. What say you?

Todd Hampson: That is the connotation. It is a side issue or something that old people study. It is not really important to me. But Paul would beg to differ. Paul, the great theologian of the New Testament, spent three or four weeks only with the church at Thessalonica, and in their believers' 101 course, so to speak, he taught them all about eschatology. He taught them about the Rapture and the Day of the Lord, or the tribulation period.

He even goes so far as to say, "I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren," as he sets up teaching the doctrine of the Rapture. I think that should be the mindset of every believer. Although we look back and we are people of reflection, we look back to the death, burial, and resurrection and all that that means for us in terms of our salvation and the Great Commission, our marching orders while we await His return.

But we are also told to occupy until He comes. We are supposed to be people of anticipation as well as we look forward to what the Bible calls the blessed hope. In the key passage that teaches the Rapture, 1 Thessalonians 4, Paul even finishes the whole play-by-play description of the Rapture by saying, "Now encourage one another with these words."

There is nothing more encouraging for the believer when you look at the chaos and the insanity in the world and some of the danger and the scary stuff than to say, "But this is not the way it is always going to be. I am waiting for my blessed hope." As the church, we are the bride of Christ. We are waiting for the Groom to hear His Father say, "The addition on the house is ready. Go fetch your bride and bring her home." Jesus even alluded to that in John 14:1-3.

It is a sneak preview of the doctrine of the Rapture. We have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, there is sensationalism. Yes, people have abused eschatology and hyped it up, picked dates, or done newspaper exegesis where they are seeing something in the newspaper and saying it is a fulfilled sign. But that does not negate the fact that God gave us the end of the story.

Nobody that I know goes to their favorite blockbuster movie and walks out before the ending. We are supposed to know how it ends. God gifted us with a whole book of prophecy at the end of the canon to let us know how the story ends. We are storytellers by nature. We love stories. We live stories. God knows that we need to know our origins in Genesis 1-3 and our destiny in the book of Revelation. The enemy has done a good job of getting many people's eyes off of those two critical things.

Josh Davis: Let's dive a little bit deeper because some of the critics of the Rapture would say that the Rapture is not really even in the Bible. What does the Scripture say? Where do we find the word Rapture in the Scripture?

Todd Hampson: That is a good point and it is an accurate argument. The word Rapture is not in the Bible. It is nowhere in the Bible. But the Greek word *harpazo* is. Where Paul is describing the Rapture, he says, "We will be caught up," and that is the Greek word *harpazo*. Rapture comes from the Latin translation of that, *rapturo*, and then we just adopted it as Rapture. Call it whatever you want, call it the catching away, the great catching away, or the *harpazo*. Whatever you want, but the concept is there.

By the way, there are many things in Scripture, many words that are not in Scripture that we believe. The word Trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture. The word Bible is not found anywhere in Scripture. We have to be good students of the Bible if we are serious disciples and we are serious about our faith and just see what the text actually says. That is really what it goes back to. The concept is there and it is systematically taught in Scripture, and I unpack that in the book as well.

Josh Davis: Even thinking about that word *harpazo*, it has that R-P sound in that word. I think that has influenced the Latin, and that influenced the English. You can see the chain there between the words and you can see how that phrase has developed. So I believe that yes, it is there and I think you lay that out so well for us.

We know that the Rapture is a biblical concept. You touched on something there too I wanted to circle back around, talking about Jesus' words to His disciples in John 14. In your book, you have some interesting parallels between Paul's description of the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Jesus' words to His disciples there in John 14. Can you explain just a few of the parallels that we see in both of those messages?

Todd Hampson: First of all, some people do not even realize that what Jesus was using there was ancient Jewish wedding language. I alluded to that a moment ago where the father would pay a great price or a dowry for the bride, and then his son would be legally bound in a legal relationship to the bride. But then the son would have to go back to the father's house and build an addition on the father's house. Then the father would send him to fetch the bride. He would literally pick her up on a kind of a tray, kind of like a gurney almost, called a *ketubbah*, and literally whisk her off her feet off the ground and carry her to the father's house.

In John 14, when Jesus said, "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many rooms. If that were not so, I would have told you because I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go to prepare a place, I am coming again and will take you to Myself so that where I am, there you also will be."

In the book, I have a chart. This is where my visual background comes into play and I think it helps unpack this and connect this. I have a side-by-side view of 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 and John 14:1-3. I use a color-coding thing to show the similarities between what Paul unpacks and what Jesus was saying.

For example, when Paul says we will be caught up together with them, the dead in Christ who have been raised first, to meet the Lord in the air, that mirrors where in John 14, Jesus said, "I will take you to Myself." And then the following phrase after that, Paul says, "And so we will always be with the Lord." The following phrase in John 14, Jesus said, "So that where I am, there you also will be."

Finally, this is something I think we cannot miss. We have to make sure we understand this for the Rapture. Paul ends his message with, "Therefore comfort one another with these words." In John 14, Jesus starts it off by saying, "Do not let your heart be troubled." There are so many similarities and so many ways these tie in. I think that is intentional. What a blessing to hear the words of the Lord Himself and the detailed words of Paul when he was revealed this mystery.

Josh Davis: These are two essential Rapture passages. We will come back to them and explore them a little bit more. By the way, for our listeners, you also have another great chart in there talking about the marriage relationship, that first century, and how that parallels. I need to talk to Todd about borrowing this chart sometime because this is amazing, the kinds of things that you have systematized and how you have drawn out these biblical parallels and put it in easy-to-see, easy-to-understand formats. I appreciate that aspect of it.

Friends, we are visiting with the author of this book, Todd Hampson. We are discussing The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture. You can give us a call and order your copy today at 1-800-652-1144. That is 1-800-652-1144. Or visit us online at swrc.com.

Let's get into talking about the timing of the Rapture because that is where a lot of the debate really takes place. Is it before the tribulation, during the tribulation, before the wrath, after the tribulation? All these different things about the timing really come into question. Some people say that all these verses should be understood as an allegory. Others say no, we need to understand them literally. What is the best approach to understanding Scripture before we jump into discussing the different views on the timing of the Rapture?

Todd Hampson: That is a great question and it really is the foundational question related to anything we study in Scripture: what Bible study method or what hermeneutic are you going to use? I think many lay Christians have kind of a patchwork theology and maybe have never really consciously thought through how I interpret Scripture. I think that is an important question if we are really looking for truth, especially in these areas where there are different opinions and there have been debates over the centuries in church history. It is important to know how you approach Scripture.

I believe we should approach it literally, not hyper-literally. When God says, "I want to protect you like a mother hen," it does not mean He has wings and feathers. But it allows for poetic language, it allows for symbolism. But those symbols mean something concrete. They are clearly symbols, and particularly in the book of Revelation. They mean something concrete, and the meaning of those symbols in Revelation, for example, half of them you can find out the meaning in the immediate text. The other half are direct allusions to the Old Testament. Revelation assumes you have a working knowledge of the prophets, so they go hand in hand.

But all that to say, we need to be very careful, not just with eschatology but every area of theology. If we are serious students of the Bible and we really want to concretely know what truth is in Scripture, what conclusions to come to to the best of our ability, we need to get out of the way and let the text speak.

By the way, a good confirmation of that is the fact that the Bible is about 28% prophecy. 80% of that has already been fulfilled, and all of that was fulfilled literally exactly as foretold. There is no reason we should then switch Bible study methods and say, "Well all the future stuff is allegory." If all the past stuff was fulfilled literally, we are just at a different spot in the story. There is nothing in Scripture that says during the church age you switch gears and you look at everything allegorically. Far from it, we are supposed to trust the fact that God has given us such a huge down payment of literal fulfilled prophecy that we should come to the conclusion and be careful with Scripture and say that means the rest of the stuff that He said is going to happen in the future is literally going to happen. I think that clears the issue up for a lot of people when they own that, when they realize that's the key issue, and then they take that approach to Scripture and have more of an inductive study. Let the meaning come out of the text, not me pouring in what I want it to say on the text. Very important.

Josh Davis: I agree with you 100% because the more that the person is trying to decide the meaning themselves, so much subjectivity comes into it and you can make the Scripture say anything that you want it to say instead of just letting the Scripture objectively inform us of what we need to know.

We just got a few minutes left on today's episode. I have got a lot more questions I wanted to get to, but we will save some of those for the next time. Let's just touch on some of the prominent views concerning the timing of the Rapture. Maybe you could just briefly introduce us to some of those and maybe touch on some of the church history and the views of the Rapture.

Todd Hampson: First off, let me just say it definitely is not a salvation issue. We should always have a unified front when it comes to Christians. I see way too much infighting about the timing of the Rapture or even the nature of the Rapture. Those are not salvation issues, so we need to show unity in the body. But they are very important and they have very real-world consequences to how we see the world, to how we feel as believers, to how we teach Scripture.

The bottom line is what is true, what does Scripture actually say? That should be our main concern. With that being said, you primarily have three or four primary views: the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib. What that means is pre or before the seven-year tribulation, the church gets raptured. That is the view you and I hold.

Then there is the mid-trib position, which holds that the church will go through half of the tribulation period and be raptured at the midpoint. Then there is the post-trib, which believes at the return of Christ we are raptured and then we kind of come right back down. As you mentioned, there is also a pre-wrath view that places the Rapture kind of towards the end of the tribulation period. They do not see God's actual wrath coming until that point.

And then there is also—and this used to be kind of a comical view that people would say to show unity—the pan-trib, that I do not know, but it is going to pan out in the end. But now there are people that actually hold that view and they do not even put in the effort to come to their own conclusion or form their own conviction. Imagine if we did that with salvation. What if we were pan-salvationists? I do not know how you get saved, but I know some people do. It makes no sense.

Those are the primary views. The big three, I call them, are pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib. That simplifies it to just show you that there are different views for the timing of the Rapture. I believe thoroughly, especially the more I have studied it, that pre-trib is not just a wishful thinking, but it is a slam dunk. I have brothers and sisters who disagree with me and I love them in the Lord, but I 100% believe you can be confident that the pre-trib view is correct.

Josh Davis: We will put a bookmark in there. That is a good place for us to stop because we are going to pick up on that and talk about the pre-trib view in particular in the next episode. Friends, we invite you to join us. If you would like to pick up a copy of this book, it is The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture. Again, our phone number, toll-free 1-800-652-1144. 1-800-652-1144. Or visit us online, swrc.com. Todd, I look forward to continuing this conversation with you on tomorrow's program.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Todd Hampson will continue this fascinating conversation on the Rapture on our next program. Today, we are excited to spotlight Todd's brand-new book, The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture. The doctrine of the Rapture is criticized and disputed by many people today. But when you take a close look at church history and the witness of Scripture, you'll discover for yourself the clear reality of this future event and the profound impact it can have on your life in the present.

The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture combines engaging illustrations and down-to-earth explanations to show you precisely what church history and Scripture reveal about the Rapture. Find clear answers to challenging questions, including: What is the Rapture and when will it occur? Is talk of the end times and the Rapture just a distracting sideshow for sensationalists? What did the early church believe about this event? And what does God's Word say?

Order The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture today when you call 1-800-652-1144. That's 1-800-652-1144. You can also order this outstanding book on our website. Simply visit swrc.com. In the same way that an upcoming match or game prompts an athlete to train with intensity and focus, the reality of the Rapture can fill your every thought, word, and deed with power and purpose. Get ready to discover how living with God's future promises in mind can fill you with more confidence and hope today. The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture: 1-800-652-1144.

Josh Davis: Greetings, friends. Thank you so much for your faithful prayers and partnership with us in our ministry, all the various outreaches that we have. I have a special report and update for you today about just one of those special outreaches: it's our Onesimus Prison Ministry.

Here at Southwest Radio Ministries, we have a unique prison outreach. In fact, this very radio program is a part of that unique outreach, and we are so glad to be able to reach inmates all across America. I want to share some unique letters that we have received as a way of expressing our gratitude to you, dear friends, and just one more time to say thank you so much for your prayers and partnership with us in ministry.

For instance, we sent a calendar to an inmate and he just wrote us a simple thank you note. I wanted to share that with you, friends, because it's because of you and when you support this ministry, you are enabling us to be a channel of God's blessings to others, like this particular inmate in Virginia that writes to us: "I'm writing this short note just to say thank you so much for the calendar and the encouraging newsletters."

What are those encouraging newsletters? It's our monthly Prophetic Observer newsletter and pastor letter that's included. We send that to inmates all across America, and we send that to thousands of addresses across the US as well. If you're not on our mailing list to receive our free monthly Prophetic Observer newsletter, just give us a call today: 1-800-652-1144. Just say you'd like to get added to our mailing list and you'll start receiving our free monthly Prophetic Observer newsletter.

This inmate is just expressing thanks for the encouraging newsletters plus the free calendar that we could send to him. As a reminder, every time that you purchase a calendar from our ministry, you enable us to send two calendars free of charge to inmates across America. This particular inmate was one of those that received a calendar from our ministry.

He just continues his letter by saying, "May God richly bless your generous hearts. Know that you are loved and prayed for." Friends, that goes to you. That goes to those of you who are praying for this ministry, for those of you who are partnering with us financially. The generosity and the thanks of that, we are glad to be generous with what God has blessed us with. As you bless this ministry with your faithful gifts, we are able to continue faithfully sending out resources. We cannot send resources if we don't have those funds available because every resource costs our ministry something. The postage costs continue to escalate. There are so many other good letters that I could share with you, but time doesn't permit. I just again let me end by saying thank you so much for your faithful prayers and partnership with us in ministry, especially for the Onesimus Prison Outreach.

Southwest Radio Ministries: The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture by Todd Hampson combines engaging illustrations and down-to-earth explanations to show you precisely what church history and Scripture reveal about the Rapture. Order The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture today when you call 1-800-652-1144. You can also order on our website, swrc.com.

In the same way that an upcoming match or game prompts an athlete to train with intensity and focus, the reality of the Rapture can fill your every thought, word, and deed with power and purpose. Get ready to discover how living with God's future promises in mind can fill you with more confidence and hope today. The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Rapture: 1-800-652-1144. Be sure to tune in tomorrow when Todd Hampson continues to share details and evidence of the Rapture. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful listeners like you. To learn more, visit swrc.com.