Watchman on the Wall

Announcer: Welcome to Watchman on the Wall, a daily outreach of Southwest Radio Ministries and swrc.com. God is still on the throne, and prayer changes things. Today, Mark Lindstead asks this question: What if one of the most widely accepted assumptions in Bible prophecy is wrong?

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Josh Davis: What if everyone has been looking in the wrong place? That's one of the key questions that kicks off a wonderful, fascinating journey that we're going to be on the next couple of days. We're talking with our good friend, Mark Lindstead. He's written a brand new book. It's called Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery.

Where will this Third Temple be? Everyone says, or at least a lot of people say, that the Dome of the Rock has to be taken out of the way in order for a Jewish Third Temple to exist on that Temple Mount. But Mark says, what if we are looking in the wrong place? Mark, thank you for joining me today.

Mark Lindstead: Thank you for having me on. And yeah, that's the big question. What if we're looking in the wrong place? I think we have to go all the way back to when Mount Moriah—as we know, the Temple Mount is on Mount Moriah—when was Mount Moriah destined to be the place? You have to go all the way back in Genesis to where Abraham is told to go to Mount Moriah to sacrifice Isaac. Of course, he ends up calling the place Jehovah Jireh because the ram was caught in the thicket and took the place of Isaac, fully symbolizing Christ taking our place on the cross and paying the debt of our sin.

Over the years, that whole piece of land, all of Israel in fact, has been under contention. Who owns it? Biblically, if you go to the Bible, God says, it's my holy mountain. It's His. And then all throughout scripture, He says to Abraham, I'm giving this land to your generations, to your nation. And so we know it belongs to Israel. But of course, as Israel was scattered throughout the nations, that came under contention: who actually owns it?

When Israel became a state again in 1948, they still didn't own the Temple Mount according to that separation. Everyone talks about a two-state solution, and that's never worked. There's been a two-state solution actually in place. You have the Palestinian areas; when we travel to Israel, we have certain areas that even our Israeli guides won't go into. So it's kind of been a two-state solution the whole time. But it doesn't really work when your neighbors want you dead. That makes a big difference.

In 1948, the Jewish people only had part of Jerusalem and they didn't have the Temple Mount. In 1967, in the Six-Day War, they took the Temple Mount back. So it really is owned by Jerusalem now. Control and ownership are two different things because they always try to give away something in the name of peace. As soon as they took possession of that, they gave control back to the Jordanian religious police, the Islamic police, because they were promised a status quo.

Sometimes we even have to go back further because there are people out there who say the Temple really stood in the City of David. You've been to the City of David. Is it big enough to hold the Temple Mount complex? No, not at all. There's no way that would have fit there. And then there's other people who would claim, no, the Temple of Solomon actually stood in Nablus.

I don't know if we've been able to go into Nablus with your group yet. Usually it's under too high contention. Hopefully, if things settle down, the next trip or two we'll be able to get into there. But you look at who spreads this rumor of Nablus: it's Yasser Arafat. This is the man who said, we will not bend or fail until the blood of every last Jew from the youngest child to the oldest elder is spilt to redeem our land. It's not their land. This is the kind of guy that people want to take facts from.

In fact, he told Bill Clinton at Camp David, oh no, that Temple of Solomon, that was at Nablus. That wasn't even close to the Temple Mount that we know today. Well, there's lots of things wrong with Nablus. First of all, it's not Mount Moriah. We know for a fact that it's Mount Moriah. That's exactly where David builds an altar to the Lord to sacrifice and give peace offerings to stop the plague that's coming against the nation of Israel for his sin.

We know that's exactly where Abraham took Isaac. God said, go to Mount Moriah. And if you look at Nablus, the site they claim, there's no mikvah or mikva’ot, which is a cleansing pool to go into the Temple. If you don't have mikvahs, you can't cleanse Jewish people to go to the Temple Mount. When you look at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, there's mikva’ot everywhere. In fact, the Pool of Siloam, one of the biggest ones, is now uncovered. It's about the size of two Olympic swimming pools now that they've found the entirety of it.

So there's so many things that go against all these other locations. But we know, and there's a great chapter in the book that talks about the history of the land, who owns it, where it's at, and how we have even markers today that modern guides will take you to. They'll show you Absalom's pillar, they'll show you the Kidron Valley or the King's Dale, and those are directly right there at Mount Moriah, at Jerusalem, where the Temple Mount sits right now. So we know who owns it. We also know they gave up control of it to the religious police, like I said earlier, and that was in a statement of peace. They thought, if we do this, there'll be peace. Israel's always doing this. We read in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, when they promise peace and safety, then sudden destruction. That's exactly where they go every single time they try to give a concession and then there's war again.

Josh Davis: Absolutely. Friends, we're visiting with Mark Lindstead and we're building a case that he builds in his brand-new book, Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery. Where will it be located? Have some of the modern theories been forcing people to look in the wrong place? We're going to get to that. We're building the case. Like the old adage in real estate, it's all about location, location, location. We are sure that that Temple Mount area is the right area that we need to be in. How do we take the next step in building this case? Where should we go next, now that we know that we're sort of in the right neighborhood, so to speak?

Mark Lindstead: Yeah, so we start to look at more evidence and probably one of the key features that I think is important to me is the threshing floor. Remember when David stays the plague on the nation of Israel for his sin in numbering the people? It says he came to the threshing floor of Ornan or Araunah. Depending on which book you're reading it in, they're the same person. Believe me, I've done the research. It's the same person, Ornan the Jebusite.

David comes to him and Gad brings a message from the Lord that says, okay, if you'll build an altar and sacrifice here at the threshing floor, I will stop the plague. David makes an arrangement with Ornan to make this sacrifice. Ornan tries to give him the oxen, he tries to give him the wood for the fire and everything he needs. David says, no, I can't sacrifice something to the Lord that costs me nothing. So he pays him 50 shekels of silver. I believe that was for the oxen and the wood and maybe the threshing floor, because some people would say there's a contradiction because at one point he pays 50 shekels of silver and another point it says he pays 600 shekels of gold. I think the 600 shekels of gold was for the entire Temple Mount. I think he buys the entire Temple Mount there, the entire Mount Moriah.

He takes these oxen, he takes the wood, right there on the threshing floor, he builds an altar, he offers a burnt offering and a peace offering. That's right on the threshing floor of Ornan. So when we start to dissect or digest the evidence we have, we look at the Dome of the Rock. Everyone thinks the Dome of the Rock is universally known as the place of the Holy of Holies. If it's supposed to be on a threshing floor, Google what's inside the Dome of the Rock. Just take a look at that picture.

Threshing floors are known for their elevation. They're also known because they're flat. They're a place where oxen would tread, pulling what's called a threshing sledge; it's a piece of wood with stones mounted in it to separate the grain from the stalks and the chaff. If you look at that picture, you'll see such an uneven, unlevel, rocky, jagged edged area. There's just no way that could have been a threshing floor. I can't imagine an ox trying to pull a sledge around that.

So there's no way that I believe that that's a threshing floor. If you go to the north, about 100 meters, about 330 feet to the north, there's a small cupola they call the Dome of the Spirits. Under that, we have this beautifully smooth and pitted area. It looks just like a first-century threshing floor. If you Google first-century threshing floors in the Middle East, you'll see all these have the same kind of characteristics. That's what we see under the Dome of the Spirits.

Coincidentally enough, in Islam, it's also known as the Dome of the Tablets. I don't know that most Muslims would understand what that portrays, but think about what rested in the Holy of Holies: the Ark of the Covenant. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? You have Aaron's budding rod, you have a bowl of manna, and you have the tablets of the Ten Commandments. So maybe they're carrying something over in tradition of the name that they don't even understand they're carrying over in the tradition of the name.

We see that this looks like a threshing floor. It has the same characteristics of every threshing floor you look at in the area. Then you have this name on top of it, the Dome of the Tablets. But there's some other indicators on the Temple Mount, and that comes along with the East Gate. When you read into Jewish texts, into what they call the Berakhot, which is part of the Mishnah—which is their oral Torah that was finally compiled and written down around the 200 AD time period—it talks in Berakhot 9:5. It says something about the East Gate that's very interesting. It says that you cannot show disrespect or act flippantly in front of the East Gate because it lines up directly with the Holy of Holies.

We've been there several times. If you look at the East Gate right now, if you're standing on the Mount of Olives, usually at Dominus Flevit—the cathedral there where they say Christ wept great drops of blood—if you look across straight from the Kidron Valley from the Mount of Olives at the East Gate, does it line up with the Dome of the Rock? No, it does not. Not at all. It's way off from the Dome of the Rock. So I say, okay, well, it doesn't have a threshing floor, it doesn't line up with the East Gate.

Usually the pushback I get from there is, well, Mark, you know in 70 AD the entire thing was destroyed, so the East Gate isn't even where it belongs, so you can't even use that as a gauge for the Holy of Holies.

Josh Davis: You're right. That is a really big question that people ask. That's something that I've heard too: how do you know that that's where the Eastern Gate actually was during the time of Jesus or Old Testament period even going back that far?

Mark Lindstead: Yeah, we have to thank people that came before us that were allowed to do some survey and some archaeological work before it was kind of outlawed, like Sir Charles Warren. Even after that, we had Leen Ritmeyer who gathered a lot of this information together and did a lot of study of what evidence he could find. There's a picture in the book, and it's a wonderful picture of the inside of the East Gate, because nobody's allowed to go in there.

I think a lot of this "nobody's allowed here" and "nobody's allowed there" are protecting what they already know to be true. I think Islam doesn't want you to see what's happening. Just like when they did the excavation of the Temple Mount not long back and they took all of the spoil, all of the digging, and they tried to shred them and take them to a dump site way far away and make it so nobody could see it. They knew what they would find in there, which they did find after going through the piles: evidence of Jewish history, not Islamic history.

There's a picture in the book of the inside of that East Gate. In the corner, you see what they call a monolithic column. It's a column of one piece. As they started to look at that and to dissect what time period that piece was from, it dates all the way back to the First Temple. These gateposts inside the East Gate that we currently look at are from the first century. We can even look to people like Flavius Josephus, who wrote down in the Wars of the Jews some of the things that happened during the 70 AD destruction. He comes in there and he says that all of the holy places, all of the cloisters, all of the gates, everything was destroyed except two: the one on the east and the one on the south. Then he goes further and he says, but later they burned those.

Stone doesn't burn. As you read through the Wars of the Jews and you come past that part and you go into 6:361, you see that after all that's done, the Romans decide to throw a ceremonial party for Titus for his destruction and his conquering of Jerusalem. It says they placed their ensigns or their flags at the East Gate and had this celebration at the East Gate. So if it's completely destroyed and we don't know where it is, then why would it say we put our flags at the East Gate and gave a ceremony to Titus?

That's key. You start to look at that, you say, okay, the gate's where it belongs. So if you take on the Temple Mount and you add the fact that we know it's got to be a flat threshing floor, and you know it's got to line up with the East Gate, and we know the East Gate's where it belongs, then it can't possibly be the Dome of the Rock.

Josh Davis: Wow. This is fascinating. Friends, we're visiting with Mark Lindstead and we're talking about his brand-new book, Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery. Where will the Third Temple be located? We're going to talk more about this and we're going to make some connections with Bible prophecy over the course of today's program. We're going to dive deeper into it in tomorrow's program.

But let me take just a minute to tell you: you can pick up a copy of this book. As Mark alluded to, it's filled with diagrams, with color pictures, with lots of detailed information as he makes the case for the location of the Third Temple. That's the temple that will stand during the Tribulation period. If you want to pick up a copy of this book, you can do so by giving us a call at 1-800-652-1144. Or visit us online at swrc.com.

Mark, you're building the case and you've said you've got the threshing floor, you've got the Eastern Gate lining up, and there are some issues with the suggestion that the temple will be built where the Dome of the Rock currently stands. How else can we put this puzzle together?

Mark Lindstead: Well, we go to Ezekiel. Ezekiel has a lot of information about this. First, it comes to one of the verses that comes to mind, one that I didn't understand it to be prophetic until I was doing this study. In Ezekiel 44:8, it says, "Ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers in my sanctuary for yourselves." So God has even told them, I know that you're going to take this mount back and I know that you're going to give control over it to somebody else.

As we study Ezekiel even further, we look at some other indicators. In chapter 43, it says that he takes Ezekiel to the gate to the east, and he starts describing what the Temple Mount's going to look like. It talks about they'll place their thresholds against my thresholds and they'll place their posts against my posts. It even says they'll have the carcasses of their kings or their high men or people they celebrate on the Temple Mount.

That's a big contention. If you Google who's buried on the Temple Mount, it'll say nobody because it's a holy place, not allowed to do that at all. So you start to look at that and then you start to think, okay, how is that going to be accomplished? How are we going to find these leaders buried on the Temple Mount if they're not already there? Who's going to do that now? Well, they are already there.

There's a man named Al-Kadir Al-Husseini. I may have said that wrong. I don't pronounce it very well, but he was known for holy jihad. That was his biggest thing. He was responsible for the Ben Yehuda Street bombings that killed 52 people and injured hundreds more. He was responsible for the Palestinian Post bombing when the paper was saying things he didn't like. He tried to starve out Jewish people from the Old City of Jerusalem.

Guess what? If you Google where he's buried, it says the Al-Aqsa Mosque complex. Where is the Al-Aqsa Mosque complex? On the Temple Mount. So we have the carcasses of their—there's several buried there. Then you think about if you destroy everything Islamic or everything of any other religion on the Temple Mount and build the Jewish temple there, how do you have their thresholds and their posts against the thresholds and posts of the Lord?

You start to understand, you see later on it tells you to measure off from the profane place to build the temple. What's more profane than the Dome of the Rock or Al-Aqsa? I think those structures have to be there because it says their thresholds, the evil thresholds, will be against mine. It says there'll be a wall of separation there. There's plenty of room to the north where the Dome of the Spirits is to build this Holy of Holies, the Holy place, the inner court where the sacrifice takes place.

There's plenty of room for that. So I think that the Bible tells us there's going to be what I would call an interfaith Temple Mount during the Tribulation. I think we see evidence of a trial run for these things already happening. You look at places like the Abrahamic Family House in Abu Dhabi. There's a cathedral or a church, and there's a synagogue and a mosque all occupying one place.

I really do think that's a trial run for the way that the one-world religion will come into power and how it will look on the Temple Mount. They'll come to this thing where they say, well, we all worship the same God anyway, it's just how we choose to worship. I think even a Pope said one day, not too long ago, that all religions are just different languages to the same God. I don't know about you, but I don't think that I worship the same God as Islam because Islam calls Allah the greatest deceiver, and the Bible says the greatest deceiver is Satan.

So I don't think we're worshipping the same God at all. But I think this ecumenical pull to put everything together and to say we're all doing the same thing is how the one-world religion will actually come to be during the Tribulation period. I see that Temple Mount will look that way. We even have one in the United States, in Omaha. It's called the Tri-Faith Commons there in Omaha, Nebraska. It even has a river running through these buildings that's called Hell River. You can't make this stuff up; only God could have this stuff come to be.

Josh Davis: Yeah, that's true. As you're describing these things, there's something that I've been percolating on in my mind and just wondering if during the Tribulation that the Dome of the Rock will become sort of a center for all faiths to come into because it's not the mosque. A lot of Christians even mistakenly think that the Dome of the Rock is the mosque where Muslims would go in to worship. But they don't. There's a separate building, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is to the south of that. That's the mosque. So it's interesting to think about how all these things could happen and could take shape during the end times.

I know we're running short on time for today's program. We've got a couple minutes left and we want to really dive in deeper on that tomorrow, including exploring some of the other preparations that are being made. One of the things that we get to do is go to Shiloh, where they have the red heifers, and we want to make some connections with the Jewish preparations and just how quickly—I mean, if you're thinking about a temple needing to be built, then you're talking about a massive construction project. Could you at least hint to why you think that's not the case? We want to unpack that more fully in the next episode.

Mark Lindstead: Yeah, I think that the moment Israel finds enough peace—whether it's a covenant or whatever comes into play—when they find enough peace to return to sacrifice, I think they're going to erect a Tabernacle immediately. I think that the reason why, first of all, is to secure their place, secure their sacrifice and get it going as soon as possible. I think within hours they can erect a Tabernacle. That's how they're going to start. Then maybe after the first few sacrifices everything kind of settles down, they'll begin to try to build a stone structure. I think they're chomping at the bit; they have everything ready to go. Tomorrow we'll discuss some of the things they have ready to go or some of the things I think they might find to put up there that go all the way back to the time of Moses.

Josh Davis: That's going to be fascinating. We will jump into that, friends. Join us again on the next episode as we unpack this in greater detail. I want to remind you one more time you can pick up a copy of this brand-new book. It's published by Beacon Street Press, which is a ministry of SWRC. It's written by Mark Lindstead, who's been our guest today. The book's title is Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery. It'll help you discover the true location of the Jewish Temple.

As I said a few minutes ago, a lot of great color photographs, descriptions, charts, maps included in this very helpful resource, well-researched by Mark Lindstead. So pick up your copy today by giving us a call: 1-800-652-1144. Or visit us online at swrc.com.

By the way, before we wrap up this episode, I want to just throw this in there: Mark serves as our tour host on our Israel trip. We've been talking a little bit about some of those locations and where we have been and what we have seen. So Mark and I will be going back to Israel this November 1st through the 12th. We would love for you to join us. More information is available by giving us a call or visiting our website swrc.com. Mark, I look forward to continuing this conversation with you tomorrow.

Mark Lindstead: I do too. Thanks for having me on.

Announcer: Today, we are excited to debut the brand-new book, Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery by Mark Lindstead. What if one of the most widely accepted assumptions in Bible prophecy is wrong? In Lost and Found, Mark Lindstead challenges the long-held belief that the Third Temple must stand where the Dome of the Rock sits today.

With geopolitical tensions making such a scenario seem nearly impossible, Lindstead invites readers to reconsider the question from a biblical and historical foundation rather than tradition. Tracing the temple's origins back to the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite, this book uncovers overlooked clues embedded in scripture, ancient geography, and the alignment of Jerusalem's gates.

At the center of the investigation is a compelling idea: the key to the temple's true location has been hidden in plain sight. Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery by Mark Lindstead. Order your copy today when you call 1-800-652-1144. You can also order Lost and Found at our website: swrc.com.

Friends, if you've ever wrestled with how a new temple could realistically be built, Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery offers a perspective that is as intriguing as it is consequential. Discover what's been missed and why it matters now more than ever. Lost and Found: Solving the Third Temple Mystery. More insight into the Third Temple mystery with Mark Lindstead is coming up on tomorrow's program. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful listeners like you. To learn more, visit swrc.com.