Watchman on the Wall

Southwest Radio Ministries: Welcome to Watchman on the Wall, a daily outreach of Southwest Radio Ministries and swrc.com. God is still on the throne, and prayer changes things. This week, we're taking a deep dive into the book of Revelation. We start the week with Pastor Doug Stauffer examining Revelation. Donald Perkins continues his verse-by-verse study of the book later this week, and we'll wrap up our week together with Josh Davis's look at the latest headlines from the end times.

First though, I want to share a way that you can help Southwest Radio Ministries: by your endorsement. That's right, your personal endorsement means so much in helping spread the word about Watchman on the Wall, Prophecy in the News, and our monthly publications. Please invite your family and friends to download our free SWRC mobile app and enjoy all our content and programming. Encourage them to visit our website, swrc.com, and ask them to pray for us at home and at church. Thank you, friends, for helping us reach more people with the good news. Our host, Dr. Larry Spargimino, recently visited with pastor and author Dr. Douglas Stauffer. They discuss the pre-tribulation view of the rapture, digital currency, and the book of Revelation. Let's listen in on this fascinating conversation.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: The events of the present days promoted a desire to study Bible prophecy and also a desire to study the book of Revelation. There has never been a time like today. Yes, there is great interest, but there is also great confusion. A lot of things are written about the book of Revelation and very confusing, and a lot of it very wrong. Our guest for this program and the next two programs is Dr. Douglas Stauffer. Doug is an internationally recognized authority in Bible history, apologetics, and prophetic studies. Doug, it's so nice to be at the mic visiting with you once again. Just good to hear your voice.

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, Larry, you know how I feel about you and about Southwest Radio. I'm just thrilled to death with another opportunity to minister to your following. Man, I'm excited about these programs.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: Well, just to open, tell our listening audience about *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation* book two, just kind of general stuff. What's it about, and what's unique about it?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, it goes through Revelation. Book one and book two cover the whole of Revelation verse by verse. You know, it has some things in it that I did not find anywhere else, but it sticks to the Bible. One of the things I don't do is say that Gorbachev's mark on the top of his head makes him the Antichrist, the mark of the beast, because that might have been wrong. I don't do newspaper eisegesis. What I do is stick to the scripture.

So both of these volumes together are scripture, and we use scripture to define scripture. That's the big difference in this book, along with the fact that it does cover some areas that a lot of people have gotten wrong for a long time. I've spent, as you have, thousands of hours in prophetic study, and I get corrected by the Bible. I don't change the Bible.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: Before we even get into events, how should someone approach the book of Revelation so they don't misunderstand it?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: That's a great question, Larry. I think the biggest key is let the Bible interpret itself. Revelation is not a book where we guess at the symbols. When something is symbolic, the Bible tells you what it means. When the text is literal, you take it literally. When it uses symbols, scripture defines those symbols.

The greatest mistake people make is imposing their own private interpretation on the text instead of letting the text speak for itself. One verse I'll give you in answer to this question is 2 Peter 1:20: "knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." We've had a lot of private interpretation. It's time to get back to the Bible.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: Well, you emphasized that Revelation is not strictly chronological. Why is that so important?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: This is a critical thing to understand for Revelation too. Honestly, it's the reason most people think Revelation is hard to grasp. Revelation does move forward, but it doesn't just move forward once. It actually walks through the same time period multiple times from different perspectives. You can think of it at least like the three major passes through the tribulation period. First you have the seals, the trumpets, the vials showing the progression of judgment.

Then you have chapters like Revelation 12, Revelation 13, that go back and explain the people and the powers behind it—Israel, Satan, the Antichrist. Then later, you see the final outcome and judgment expanded again. So instead of one straight timeline, it's more like God is saying, "Let me show you what happens. Now let me show you why it happens. Now let me show you how it ends." If you don't see that, the book of Revelation becomes confusing. But when you do see it, everything starts to fall in place. Revelation is not just a timeline, it's a layered explanation.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: So if someone reads Revelation straight through like a timeline, what mistakes will they make, and what will they come up with?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, they'll start forcing everything into a single timeline that doesn't fit. They'll treat expanded explanations as separate events, creating confusion and even making it contradictory, even though it's not. It doesn't contradict at all. They may think the book is repeating itself when, in reality, it's adding detail and perspective. Ultimately, they'll miss the bigger picture. Revelation is not just laying out events, it's revealing the spiritual conflict behind those events. Remember, this whole thing started in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, and Satan shows up. Well, when we get to Revelation, Satan shows up again, but he's being kicked out of heaven. So it's really an amazing book, Revelation is.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: We're visiting with Dr. Douglas Stauffer. We're talking about his *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation* book two. Douglas, where does the tribulation period actually begin in the book of Revelation?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, it begins when the Lamb opens the seals in Revelation chapter 6. So the first five chapters are not part of the seven years. Revelation 6 marks the start of Daniel's 70th week, commonly referred to as the seven-year tribulation period. I try to use Daniel's 70th week because then what that does is it aligns it with the book of Daniel. From that point forward, everything is moving toward the Day of the Lord and ultimately the return of Jesus Christ.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: What then is the significance of the throne room scene in Revelation 4 and 5?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: The throne room shows that everything that follows is under God's authority. Before judgment ever begins, heaven reminds us God is still on the throne and prayer changes things. But God is still on the throne. This is not chaos, it's controlled judgment. But it goes even deeper than that. Revelation 4 and 5 show us who's in control, why he has the right to act, meaning God. You see him on the throne, and then you see the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who alone is worthy to open the book.

That's critical because the one bringing judgment is the same one who provided redemption. He's just in his judgment and the justifier, according to Romans chapter 3. It also marks a major shift in the book of Revelation. Up to this point, the focus has been on earth. Now the scene moves to heaven, and from that moment forward, everything that happens on earth is obviously directed from God's throne room in heaven. So before Revelation reveals judgment falling, God makes it clear things are not out of control, things are not random, it's not man's doing. This is the unfolding of God's plan under his ultimate authority. Before God ever shows us judgment, he shows us the throne, and that's what Revelation 4 and 5 are all about.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: Well, I think your comment that this is not chaos is really very, very accurate because when I read the book of Revelation, even if you don't understand everything about it—no one understands everything about it—but nevertheless, you know that someone's in control. This is not chaos. There is judgment, but it's not a fit of rage like a bull in a pen who's crashing everything, that God is just, he's holy, and he's absolutely sovereign. If we approach the book of Revelation with that thought, I think it will calm us down so we realize that this is not just a hodgepodge of confusion, but there is a point and a purpose. The Lord Jesus Christ, certainly in chapters 4 and 5, is really glorified.

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Amen. No doubt about it. I will say this before we go on: Revelation 4:11 says that we are created for his pleasure. So to me, that's one of the greatest verses in the Bible where God tells us the purpose of his creation is to please him. That's why he's not pleased that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Nobody is born into this world condemned to hell. So Revelation 4:11 is that type of glorification of God and really Revelation of why we exist in this world and why God created his creation.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: I certainly think that the Lord Jesus is exalted. Why is the Lamb the only one worthy to open the seals?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, he alone redeemed mankind. The right to judge the earth belongs to the one who paid the price for redemption. Jesus Christ is not only the Savior, he's the rightful judge. His worthiness is tied directly to his sacrifice. He's worthy anyway, but when you look at it from man's perspective, that's what you see. In Revelation chapter 5, no one in heaven, no one on earth, no one under the earth is found worthy to open the book until the Lamb appears.

That moment makes it clear that this authority belongs to Christ alone. He's worthy not because of his power alone, I'd even say, but because he was slain and redeems the saved by his blood. The same one who offered mercy is now the one who executes judgment. I think that's a crucial point to make. So when the seals are opened, it's not random judgment. It's the righteous act of the one who has both the authority to rule and the right to judge.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: Friends, if you want to gain a deeper insight into the book of Revelation, *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation* book two is a volume you will want. It is 364 pages in length. It is a treasure of insight and information regarding the last book of the Bible. Book one is also available through Southwest Radio Church. Our toll-free number is 1-800-652-1144. I really believe that Dr. Stauffer has some very significant insights into the book of Revelation. 1-800-652-1144. Douglas, you've written about Revelation, preached on it, and have become an expert. Let me just ask, I think it's kind of an important question. How did this intense interest start in your heart? What did the Lord do? What scripture, maybe something that happened in the news or in your own life? I know the Lord can use a variety of prompts or motivators. Tell us something really personal about you and the book.

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Noah Hutchings. Noah Hutchings called me and said, "We're writing a book called *Will the Church Go Through the Tribulation?*" I looked at real prophetic understanding and said, "My goodness, it's lacking." So I spent and poured into Paul's epistles, which was what I was writing on, and I wrote on Paul's epistles proving the pre-tribulation rapture.

I spoke in conference with you guys and with others, and then all of a sudden, I went from speaking once on what I knew to where now I was asked, "Hey, we want you to be in the room with 1,500 people and preach in the next one six months later." I'm going, "Well, I just preached everything I knew." So it starts with Noah Hutchings, and then it goes into where I wrote a book on Thessalonians. In doing that, I studied 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, wrote the book on it, but I had to put in hundreds and hundreds, probably a thousand hours, to make sure that I got it right. I read everything I disagreed with to challenge me.

So that went into Thessalonians, and then I did Matthew 24-25, and then I redid *One Book Rightly Divided*, and it went from my doctoral thesis of 276 pages to 844 expanded because of the prophetic aspect of the book. So it really starts with Southwest Radio and Noah Hutchings and you and your interviews of me. It's just amazing how God has blessed me through this ministry.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: You certainly have been very diligent. A lot of people want to open the book and think they didn't get much out of it. Well, if it's the Bible, the problem is not the Bible, it's the reader. The Word of God is always worthy of intensive study, prayer, and not just an occasional cracking the book, but doing it on a regular basis. I know you're a very studious person. You're a retired CPA. You think very logically, and I think that's a good testimony for all of us that the Word of God is holy, it's sacred, and we need to take it seriously. Praise the Lord for you and your methodology.

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, thank you, Larry. That means a lot coming from you who has put in many, many, many years before I ever even got kickstarted. So thank you for that.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: Amen. Well, as we continue, what happens when the seals are opened, and what do they represent?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: The seals initiate the seven years of Daniel's 70th week, the tribulation period. As they're opened, you begin to see deception and war, famine, death, what many refer to as the four horsemen. These are not isolated or random events, as we've already discussed. They represent the beginning of God allowing judgment to unfold on a world that has rejected him over and over and over again. What appears to be natural or political events on the surface are really part of a divine unfolding. That's the start of the process. God is loosening restraints. He's allowing conditions on earth to move toward judgment locally and then eventually worldwide.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: How do the seal judgments set the stage for everything that follows? That's a critical question, and I know you'll have a really great answer.

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: I appreciate that question, Larry. They create instability at every level: political, economic, social. As the conditions worsen, the world becomes increasingly desperate for answers and really for leadership. You know where that's going. Well, that desperation sets the stage for a global leader, the Antichrist, to rise and offer solutions. In that sense, the chaos is not accidental. It prepares the world for control, something they've wanted all along. That instability makes people willing to accept a system that they wouldn't otherwise accept, that they might resist.

They'd say, "Oh, I've heard about this. It's the one world order and the Antichrist." But they're going to be deceived into taking the mark because pleasure comes from avoiding persecution and avoiding all of these things in the world. They think that this is going to be their way out. It's not. It is the tub is full of water and it's unplugging the plug, and they're just going around in a circle until finally they're sucked into the pipes and splash out on the other end, you might say.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: People are looking for the man with the plan. They're being set up to follow him. Is this already the wrath of God, or is that still to come? I know some people speak about the wrath of man, the wrath of God, especially those who disagree with the pre-trib position, which I think is the right position, and you do too. Where is the wrath of God in this?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: There are people that would say, "Well, I'm pre-wrath," or whatever, but this is the beginning of judgment. But the full outpouring of God's wrath intensifies later. There's a clear progression through Revelation. What starts as partial or maybe limited judgment eventually becomes complete, it becomes direct. God's moving step-by-step through what he's prophesied in the book of Revelation. But even in judgment, there's a measured unfolding that allows an opportunity for repentance.

I remember in my book, I think Revelation 16:11 is the third time that they repented not. God mentions that repentance over and over again. So what is he looking for from man? "I'm judging you. I'm bringing it on you." But there's 144,000, there's two witnesses, there's an angel with the everlasting gospel flying through the air, and you still have an opportunity to turn toward him. Now once you've taken the mark and rejected Christ, there is no hope. You have sealed your doom because you were deceived, and that's how it's going to end up. But tragically, far too many won't respond. They'll continue in rebellion despite what they are seeing, and they know it's the God of heaven that is bringing this upon them, and yet they're going to refuse to repent.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: I know there are some people that you would meet, and I've met them as well, and they look at the book of Revelation and they say, "Oh, it's horrible, it's horrifying. God is so mean. How could he do that?" But actually, just listening to you, there's love, there's mercy. Of course, going back to Revelation 7 and the 144,000 preaching the Word of God, I think the book of Revelation is really a good tool for evangelism. Your comments on that?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Oh yeah, it is amazing how many people get this wrong. They look at the Old Testament and they think that God is somehow a vengeful God that has no love and mercy and grace. But the Bible says Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, and the Bible also says one of God's attributes is to be gracious. Well, that's grace. So he's merciful, gracious, long-suffering. But when we're coming to this period of time after the church is caught out, that means that all saved people are gone from the earth, and the only people left on earth are the lost.

Acts 2, when Peter is preaching, he talks about the moon being turned into blood and so on, and he says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So even during this period of time that Peter's preaching about in Acts 2, which is Revelation, there is an opportunity for man to turn to Christ and receive him as Savior. Then what I believe, and what I put in my books, and it's very obvious to me, if it be possible, he would deceive the very elect. If all those that take the mark are deceived, and God protects his people that have trusted in him from deception, they're not worried about the mark of the beast. I mean, they're not going to take the mark because the mark is only taken by those that are deceived. Someone might say, "Well, they'll think it's their way out." No, that's deception. They're not going to be deceived. That's the bottom line on God's graciousness. Those that trust in him will be eternally secure because they cannot be deceived. So salvation, even in the future, is all up to God.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: What changes when we move from the seals to the trumpet judgments?

Dr. Douglas Stauffer: Well, the intensity increases significantly. The trumpet judgments affect large portions of the earth and involve more direct supernatural activity. What began under the seals as disruption now becomes far more severe, far more visible, far more evident. It's a noticeable shift from conditions developing to judgments being more directly executed. What started as instability now moves toward devastation. That's probably the best way I could describe it.

Dr. Larry Spargimino: As you just said, the judgments intensify. As you read the book of Revelation, I think that's very clear. At first, they are devastating, and now they become withering. As they intensify, you are confronted with the almighty power of God. This is not a little pipsqueak who's doing this. This is the God of the universe who created everything out of nothing. So I think that's a really good point. Friends, this is the closing of our program. We're up against the clock, but we're going to continue our discussion with Dr. Stauffer on our next broadcast. Please tune in. I've read the book very carefully. I think very highly of it, also of volume one. Like I indicated, we're offering book one and book two, and I think if you receive this material, you will be immensely blessed. Because here's a book that for many people is kind of a mystery. It's closed. I don't understand it. But I think with the comments and the insights that Dr. Stauffer provides in his book, you will see the light flash, and I think one of the most exciting things in the world is to come to understand the book of Revelation. Please be sure to join us for our next broadcast of your Watchman on the Wall broadcast of Southwest Radio Church.

Southwest Radio Ministries: In Dr. Doug Stauffer's brand new book, *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation Book 2*, Doug delivers a masterful verse-by-verse explanation of the book of Revelation, offering clarity to one of scripture's most powerful and prophetic texts. This book presents fresh insight for both seasoned students and newcomers to Bible prophecy. Whether you're seeking to understand end-times prophecy or to reignite your spiritual walk, *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation* will equip you to see God's ultimate plan with renewed vision and conviction.

Order *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation Book 2* today. Call 1-800-652-1144. That's 1-800-652-1144. You can also order online at swrc.com. Don't just read about the end times, experience the transforming power of Revelation for yourself. *The Illumination of the Book of Revelation Book 2*. 1-800-652-1144.

Friends, I want to personally invite you to join us for a life-changing pilgrimage to Israel with Southwest Radio Ministries host, Josh Davis. Explore ancient Jerusalem, worship at the Mount of Olives, and reflect by the Sea of Galilee. A transformative journey of faith awaits, November 1st through the 11th of this year. Get all the details and reserve your spot today. Visit swrc.com and click on the Israel tour banner on the homepage, or just give us a call at 1-800-652-1144.

Spaces are limited, friends, so make sure you reserve your spot today. Come and join us in Israel. swrc.com and click on the Israel tour banner or call 1-800-652-1144. Friends, if you have a prayer need, would you let us pray for you? We consider it an honor to pray with you. Prayer requests come in from all over the country through the mail, on the phone, and now through a special email address: prayer@swrc.com.

That's prayer@swrc.com. Dr. Douglas Stauffer will return tomorrow with more insight into the book of Revelation. Be sure to tune in by downloading our free SWRC mobile app or by subscribing to our daily Watchman on the Wall podcast. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful listeners like you. To learn more, visit swrc.com.