Pathway to Victory

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Hey, podcast listeners, thanks for streaming today's podcast from Pathway to Victory.

Pathway to Victory is a nonprofit ministry featuring the Bible teaching of Dr. Robert Jeffress. Our mission is to pierce the darkness with the light of God's Word through the most effective media available, like this podcast.

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Now here's today's podcast from Pathway to Victory.

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Hi, this is Robert Jeffress, and I'm glad to study God's Word with you every day.

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This Bible teaching program on today's edition of Pathway to Victory.

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Is heaven a real place or is it simply a state of mind? There's no better authority to answer that question than the only person who has actually been to heaven and come back to tell us what is really there. His name is Jesus Christ.

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Welcome to Pathway to Victory with author and pastor Dr. Robert Jeffress. Is heaven a real place or simply a state of mind? And if heaven is a physical destination, where is it located? And what will it be like to live there forever?

Today on Pathway to Victory, Dr. Robert Jeffress turns to passages in both the Old and New Testaments to discover what God's Word says about our eternal home.

But first, let's take a moment to hear some important ministry updates.

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Thanks, David, and welcome again to Pathway to Victory. In our sophisticated times, many agnostics believe that heaven is nothing more than a figment of our imagination. Heaven, they say, is concocted by naive religious people who want to believe there's life beyond the grave.

Today, I'm presenting a message that answers the question, is heaven a real place? And along those lines, I've written a thoughtful book that's designed to instill you with hope and anticipation. I've titled it *Encouragement from a Place Called Heaven*. In addition to igniting your excitement about your eternal destiny, my book will soundly debunk the silly myths and images that do little more than confuse people.

Plus, with inspiring scripture, breathtaking photos, and words of wisdom, this beautiful book is perfect for anyone going through stressful times, struggling with chronic illness, or grieving the loss of a loved one. When you give a generous gift to support the ministry of Pathway to Victory, I'll make sure you receive a padded hardcover copy of *Encouragement from a Place Called Heaven*.

I'll say more about this exclusive opportunity later on, but right now let's open our Bibles to John, chapter 14. Today we're answering the relevant question: Is heaven a real place?

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One morning in early 1971, famed Beatle John Lennon sat down at his Steinway piano and composed the anthem of the age. It was entitled "Imagine." In the song, Lennon imagined, what if there were no heaven or hell? Of course, as some people point out, just because an atheist imagines that heaven is not real doesn't mean it isn't real. True enough. But it's also true that just because Christians imagine heaven is real doesn't make it so either. Is heaven simply a figment of our imagination meant to dull the pain of a horrible existence? Or is heaven a real place?

Instead of turning to men and women to answer that question, the most reliable piece of evidence about the reality of heaven comes from the Bible, the book that Christians believe is God's inspired word. Is heaven a real place? Or is it simply a state of mind? There's no better authority to answer that question than the only person who has actually been to heaven and come back to tell us what is really there. His name is Jesus Christ. As we answer this question today about heaven—Is heaven a real place or a state of mind?—perhaps it would be best to consult the only authority who can tell us about the reality of heaven.

If you have your Bibles today, I want you to turn to John 14. John 14 as we answer this question in our series, "A Place Called Heaven." Is heaven a real place or simply a state of mind? Now, the setting for John 14 is key to understanding this chapter. Jesus is in the upper room with his disciples. He is having the Passover meal with them. Within just a few hours, Jesus will be betrayed in Gethsemane. Not only that, he will be tried throughout the night. The next day he will be crucified. It was a troubling evening for Jesus as well as for his disciples. They knew from what Jesus was saying that he was getting ready to leave them. Would they ever see him again? Was the movement he started destined to fail?

Well, Jesus gave them these words of reassurance that we find in John 14:1-3. Jesus said he was going to the Father's house and he would come again to take his followers to be with him. Look at verse one: "Let not your heart be troubled. Believe in God. Believe also in me. In my Father's house are many dwelling places. If it were not so, I would have told you, for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself, that where I am, there you may be also."

Now, in these three verses, there are three key words that help us answer the question of whether heaven is a real place or simply a state of mind. First of all, the significance of the Greek word "tapos," translated "place." Notice how many times Jesus says that heaven is a place. That's why I titled this series "A Place Called Heaven." Tapos is used three times here. This Greek word is the root word for what we call topography. You know what topography is? It is the act of detailing the actual physical features of land on a map.

The second word that's significant in this passage is the Greek word "moni." It is translated "dwelling places." In my Father's house are many dwelling places. That's what he says. If it were not so, I would have told you, for I go to prepare a place for you. This word "moni," dwelling places, means a habitat, a lodging, a domicile. When our girls were little and old enough to have their own rooms, they had their own bedroom. They were allowed to decorate any way they wanted to with the colors and the things that they wanted in their room. That room was specifically tailor-made for their tastes. It's interesting that he uses that word here: "In my Father's house are many dwelling places," as we're going to see in a few moments. God planned your future home with you in mind. There's a dwelling place. This isn't a state of mind; it's a real place that is designed for us.

And then thirdly, the significance of the word "prepare." "I go to prepare a place for you." Where is Jesus right now? He is in heaven, preparing our future home, that place called heaven. Now again, if heaven is just a state of mind, no work is necessary, is it? But Jesus is right now overseeing the largest construction project in human history. It is a real place.

Now, I want you to turn over from John to Acts to the passage we read a little earlier, Acts 1:9-11, that should answer forever this question of whether heaven is an actual geographical location. Remember, after Jesus was raised from the dead after his crucifixion, he spent 40 days on the earth in his new resurrected body. But then came the time for him to fulfill his promise to the disciples and go to heaven to be with his Father. Look at Acts 1:9-11: "And he, Jesus, was lifted up while they, i.e., the disciples, were looking on. And a cloud received him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while he was departing, behold, two men in white clothing stood before them."

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And.

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And they also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven." Many of us have stood on this very site, the Mount of Olives. It is an actual geographical location overlooking the city of Jerusalem. It was there that Jesus was with his disciples. This actual geographical location, and the Bible says he ascended from the Mount of Olives into heaven. And the angels promised one day Jesus will descend from heaven back to that very spot, the Mount of Olives.

Now, let me ask you a question. Does it make sense to say somebody would leave a geographical location and go up into a state of mind and that he would come from a state of mind to an actual geographical location? No. Jesus was going from one location that is very real, that's tangible, you can touch, you can walk upon. He's leaving from there to go to another geographical location. And one day the angel says he is coming back from that real place called heaven and back to this real place called earth. Just as Jesus literally went up to heaven, the angel said he is gonna return in the what? Same way, the same visible way that everyone can see. That ought to answer the question forever: Is heaven a real place or simply a state of mind?

Of course, that raises the question, well, where is this place called heaven? Have you ever wondered that? Where is heaven in the universe? Even Thomas had that question after Jesus gave them these words of assurance in John 14:5. He said, "Lord, we don't know where you are going. How can we know the way? We want to go with you. We don't know where you're going, and we certainly don't know the way." And so Jesus helped them recalibrate their spiritual GPS. He said, "You want to know how to get to heaven? Make sure you don't get lost along the way." He says in verse six, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me. You follow me and you'll get to heaven. I am the way to heaven." So he answered the how to get there question by saying, "I'm the way. I'm the way to get there."

But what about the where question? Where is this place called heaven? Well, scripture gives us a few clues about where heaven is. Number one, the Bible seems to indicate heaven is up. Heaven is up. You know, you would hardly turn to Lucifer for answers to many questions. But occasionally, even Lucifer said some things that are true. You know, a broken clock is right twice a day anyway. And occasionally Lucifer did say some true things. One thing he said when he mounted his rebellion against God in Isaiah 14:13, "I, Lucifer, will ascend to heaven. I will raise my throne above the stars of God." You have to ascend to get to heaven back again. In the Acts 1:9 passage, it says that Jesus was lifted where? Up, while the disciples were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight. So there's an indication that heaven is up.

Secondly, there's an indication that heaven is north. Now, I don't want to make too much of this. North is different depending on where you're standing. I understand that. But there's some indication that heaven is north. Again, going back to Satan's words in Isaiah 14:13, "I, Lucifer, will sit on the mount of the assembly in the recesses of the north." Job said in Job 37:22, "Out of the north comes golden splendor; around God is awesome majesty." Heaven is upward. In some ways, heaven is north.

But the question I'm asked a lot of times is, well, is heaven in a time-space location like the world in which we live? Is it an actual place that is just gazillions of miles away? Or could it be that heaven exists in another dimension that we can't see right now? Is there another dimension to this world? Well, to answer that question, it is important to distinguish between the present heaven and the future heaven. This will never make sense to you, any teaching about heaven, until you understand the difference between the present heaven, that is the heaven that exists now, and the future heaven.

Let me talk for a moment about the present heaven. In scripture, the Bible says there are three different heavens that exist right now. The first heaven is the earth's atmosphere. It's the air we breathe. It's the realm in which birds and jet airplanes fly. It is the earth's atmosphere. The second heaven is outer space, where the moon and the stars and the planets are—outer space. That's the second heaven. But the third heaven is the abode of God. It is where God is. It is this third heaven, mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12, into which Paul made a brief visit. We're going to talk about that next week as we answer the question, have some people already visited heaven? What do you make of all these books about people who have died, had a brief tour of heaven, come back, and wrote a best-selling book? How do you explain that? We're going to talk about that next time.

But Paul went up, it says in 2 Corinthians 12:4, into the third heaven where God is. By the way, it's this third heaven that you and I go to when we die. Second Corinthians 5:8 says, "To be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord." It is where Jesus is. It's where God the Father sits. It's the place that we go when we die. But that place we go to, the abode of God, is only our temporary destination. We are not going to spend eternity there. It is a temporary place that we go to right now, not our eternal place. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Because the fact is, there is a present heaven right now, but there is also a future heaven that is under construction. Some people call this future heaven the fourth heaven. It is that project, that construction project that Jesus is working on right now where God is. But it's not going to remain up there. Revelation 21, verses 1 and 2 says that that future heaven that's being constructed right now is going to come down and it is going to reside on a newly created earth. Turn over to Revelation, chapter 21, verses 1 and 2. This is what John saw.

Let me give you the setting here. This is important to understand the setting. What has happened when we get to Revelation 21? This is a brief survey of Bible prophecy in three minutes or less. Right now, the next event we are waiting for is the rapture of the Church, when those Christians who are alive shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. We will go to the present heaven where Christ is. After the rapture will be the final seven years of earth's history, the great tribulation, a time of judgment for unbelievers on the earth. The climax of that seven years is the battle of Armageddon that will usher in the second coming of Jesus when he returns to this earth visibly, as he promised to do. When he comes to earth, he will reign for a thousand years, not on a new earth, but on a renovated earth. It will be this present earth with some improvements made to it. But it's not the new earth; it is a renovated earth. He will reign here for a thousand years.

After the thousand years are ended, at the end of Revelation, chapter 20, the Bible says everything is going to be destroyed, as we'll see in a moment. And then we come to Revelation 21:1-2. John says, "And I saw a new heaven." That's the fourth heaven. That is what God is working on right now. "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city." That is the new Jerusalem. That's what Jesus is working on. "Now coming down out of heaven," that's out of the current heaven, the abode of God. "I saw it coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband."

So we have the present heaven, which includes the abode of God. But there is a future heaven that will come out of the present heaven and will reside on a newly created earth. Now, if this idea of a present heaven and a new heaven, if the idea that you're going to be in a temporary place with God, but in a final place here on earth, if that's confusing to you, just imagine it this way. Let's say that you have a dream. And that is, once you retire, you would love to go to the place where your children and grandchildren are. They're all gathered together in one city, and you'd like to go there and spend your retirement years. For you, that would be heaven. For them, it would be hell. But that's another sermon, okay, talking about heaven. It's going to be for you to go there and be with them forever.

And so upon retirement, you've got a little place by the lake there in the city. You buy a plot of land, and you're going to build your retirement home forever. So that home is under construction, but you've got to have someplace to live right now. So you rent a condo and an apartment. It's nice, it's plush, but it's only temporary. While you're living there and enjoying the time with your family, you're looking forward to that permanent home that is under construction. That's the same for us as Christians when we die. Not that we retire, but we go immediately into the presence of Jesus Christ. We are with our loved ones in heaven. It is a great time, but it's not our permanent destination. Our permanent home is under construction. And this is when it comes to Earth, finally, after the millennium.

Now let's look at some characteristics of our first future permanent home, this place called heaven. And all of this comes from Revelation 21 and 22. I want you to jot down these characteristics of our permanent home, that future place called heaven. First of all, it will be new. It will be new. Look at verse one of Revelation 21. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea." It is recreated. Peter repeats that truth in 2 Peter 3, verse 7. He said, "But the present heavens and earth by his word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."

Verse 11: "Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people are you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed?" There it is again, by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat. And according to his promise, we are looking for a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Do you see the repetition? The first heaven and the first earth are going to be destroyed not by water like it was during Noah's day, but with fire. In fact, whatever this heat is, it is going to be so intense that it will actually melt the elements, the building blocks of society. I don't know how it's going to happen, but what God says is everything we see around us, the first heaven and the first earth, this earth will be completely destroyed before there can be a new heaven and a new earth.

Why is it necessary to destroy everything that we now see? One word: Sin.

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And we'll pick up my message right at this point on tomorrow's edition of Pathway to Victory. So make plans to join us again tomorrow.

Now, when we first presented this study on a place called Heaven, our media coverage was much smaller than today. But right now we're thrilled to be heard on over a thousand radio stations and we're circling the globe by way of television as well. God has used men and women just like you to dramatically expand our audience around the world. These new opportunities come at an expense to Pathway to Victory. And for that reason, I'm boldly urging you to become one of our valued Pathway partners. By automating your monthly gift, you're helping others secure their home in heaven.

Let me read an encouraging comment from Rita, who listens to Pathway to Victory in Colorado. Rita said, "Pastor Jeffress, I have seven brothers and sisters who do not know the Lord. I'm using what I learned from your teaching to give them insight about why it is so important to know the Lord and to accept his gift of forgiving, life-saving grace." You see, your generous contribution has a multiplying impact as listeners like Rita share the truth about Heaven. Thanks for allowing God to use your personal resources to pierce the darkness with the light of His Word.

And when you give your first gift as a new Pathway partner or just give a generous one-time gift, I'll say thanks by sending you an exclusive book I've written especially for you. It's called *Encouragement from a Place Called Heaven*. Here's David to tell you more.

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When you support the ministry of Pathway to Victory by giving a generous gift, you're invited to request a copy of the book from Dr. Jeffress called *Encouragement from A Place Called Heaven*. To request your copy, simply call 866-999-2965 or visit us online at ptv.org. You can also support this ministry by texting PTV to 788-NOW when you give $75 or more.

You'll also receive both the CD and DVD teaching sets for *A Place Called Heaven* plus the original bestselling book by that same title. To request the complete package of resources, call 866-999-2965 or visit ptv.org. If you'd prefer to contact us by mail, write to P.O. Box 223609, Dallas, Texas 75222. Again, that's P.O. Box 223609, Dallas, Texas 75222.

I'm David J. Mullins. Join us again next time when Dr. Jeffress continues to answer the question, "Is Heaven a real place?" That's Tuesday, right here on Pathway to Victory.

Pathway to Victory with Dr. Robert Jeffress comes from the pulpit of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas. Alaska's pristine wilderness showcases God's glory like nowhere else, and you're invited to experience it firsthand on the Pathway to Victory Cruise to Alaska.

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Enjoy daily Bible teaching, worship led by.

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Michael O' Brien and laughter with Dennis Swanberg. All aboard Holland America's five star Koningsdam.

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So reserve your cabin today. Call 888-280-6747 or visit ptv.org. You made it to the end of today's podcast from Pathway to Victory, and we're so glad you're here. Pathway to Victory relies on the generosity of loyal listeners like you to make this podcast possible. One of the most impactful ways you can give is by becoming a Pathway Partner. Your monthly gift will empower Pathway to Victory to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and help others become rooted more firmly in His Word. To become a Pathway Partner, go to ptv.org/donate or you can follow the link in our show notes.

We hope you've been blessed by today's podcast from Pathway to Victory. Oh, and one last thing before we go. Have you reserved your spot yet for the 2026 Pathway to Victory Cruise to Alaska? You've been hearing me and Dr. Jeffress mention it. So what are you waiting for? Just picture yourself on the deck of Holland America's elegant Koningsdam and stepping out on deck to witness nature's grandeur. It's beautiful. These moments in God's creation will deepen your faith in powerful ways. It really will.

Experience five-star dining, luxurious staterooms, and visiting iconic ports like Juneau, Ketchikan, and Skagway. We're also bringing along our own Christian entertainment. You'll love it. Seats are filling up, so book your spot today at ptv.org.