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Colin Smith: You don’t need a body to do what angels do. They are ministering spirits. They, therefore, give to us a model, a pattern for thinking about the experience of our believing loved ones who are now with the Lord.

Steve Hiller: Welcome to *Open the Bible* with Pastor Colin Smith. Today we continue our message, "What Will It Be Like in Heaven?" For believers, many of us are looking forward to having a glorified body one day. But for those who are with God now, they don’t have that body yet.

Colin Smith: No, that awaits the time of the resurrection, the glorious day when all believers will be given the resurrection body together—those of us who are here and alive at the time when Christ comes and those who will come with him.

But for those who are already there, the body and the soul have been separated. The body’s been buried; it’s been laid to rest. But the spirit, the soul, is alive in the presence of Jesus. It is very hard to imagine what that’s like because we experience life through the body. But we’re going to look at what that’s like, what the Bible tells us is the immediate experience of a Christian believer after death. And it’s very wonderful.

Steve Hiller: It is, and we continue our message today from Revelation chapter 6, really focusing on verses 9 through 11. So join us there as we continue "What Will It Be Like in Heaven?" Here is Pastor Colin.

Colin Smith: You don’t need a body to do what angels do. They are ministering spirits. They therefore give to us a model, a pattern for thinking about the experience of our believing loved ones who are now with the Lord.

So let me just tease that out a little bit for you, give you just one or two examples that quickly come to mind from the Bible about what angels do, how they’re actively engaged, and therefore open up our thinking with regards to the experience now of our believing loved ones in heaven.

For example, angels see, and so do believers in heaven. Jesus says this in Matthew chapter 18 and verse 10: "Don’t despise these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Now, they don’t have bodies. Angels don’t have eyeballs. They don’t have retinas. So you say, how do you see without an eyeball and a retina? I don’t know, but the Bible tells me that angels see the Father. The spirits see the Father.

And the same, therefore, is true for your believing loved ones. Faith has been turned to sight for them. They will have eyes in the resurrection, but right now they see and behold the face of the Father in the same way as angels do. And they do not have bodies and do not need them to do it.

Secondly, angels speak, and so do believers in heaven. There’s joyful communication. We read this every Christmas, don’t we? Suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, saying... How do you say without a larynx? I don’t know, but angels do, and they don’t have bodies and they communicate and they declare the glory of God. And your believing loved ones do so also in the presence of Jesus. We will have vocal cords in the resurrection, but right now they speak as angels do.

Thirdly, angels rejoice, and so do believers in heaven. Remember Jesus saying in Luke chapter 15, "I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Angels rejoice in the presence of Jesus, and so do believers in heaven.

Fourthly, angels worship, and so do believers in heaven. I’m looking at Revelation 5: "I looked and I heard around the throne the voice of many angels." So here are these spirits, and there are thousands upon thousands of them, and they’re saying in a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."

And the redeemed in the presence of Christ share in this. They don’t yet have the resurrection body, but they worship out of a full and an overflowing heart in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith turned to sight, fullness of joy, uninhibited by any sluggishness of the flesh. It is going to be glorious.

And here’s one more thing to think about. Angels inquire. They are highly intelligent, engaged. Angels inquire, and so do believers in heaven. You’ll remember, perhaps, in 1 Peter chapter 1 and verse 12 where Peter speaks about all that was accomplished through the death and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. And he says as he’s trying to fathom this and as he’s laying out its beauty, "Even angels long to look into these things." They try to fathom all that God has done in Jesus Christ.

And we’re told quite specifically here in Revelation chapter 6 that the believers in the presence of Jesus are also asking questions. John sees souls in the presence of Jesus. In other words, the souls there were made visible to John in the vision, just like the angels were made visible to the shepherds on the night that Jesus was born. You don’t normally see angels, but they were made visible for that purpose, and the same thing happens here. And John sees these souls in heaven.

What he sees is that they were actively engaged asking questions. "How long, O Lord?" verse 10 of Revelation chapter 6. In other words, there are some things that the redeemed in heaven now do not yet know, some things that are yet to be revealed. God has more to be revealed to them yet when Jesus Christ comes, just as he has more to be revealed for us when Jesus Christ comes. And yet, they are looking forward to this, just as we are. They’re saying, "How long until this should happen?" And until then, they are actively engaged.

I find this very, very helpful in terms of thinking about the life, the experience of those who are in the presence of Christ. Never think of them being passive, slumbering, inactive. "Today you will be with me in paradise." The conscious enjoyment of the presence of Jesus.

Many Christians go through life with the idea that somehow being in the presence of Jesus is a sort of half-life, that it’s a shadowy sort of a world. The complete denial of "for me to live is Christ and to die is gain." It’s as if we come to the conclusion, "for me to live is Christ and to die is less." It’s sort of half what it was before. That cannot possibly be true.

Listen, the soul goes ahead of the body. The body waits for the redemption which is coming at the coming of Jesus. But for the believer, the soul goes ahead and is made perfect at death. In this life, the soul lives through the body. But the body, as well as facilitating the life of the soul, also places limits on the life of the soul. Think about this. "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." So where’s the limitation according to that statement of Jesus?

It’s not in the spirit; it’s in the flesh. For a Christian believer, the will of a believer’s spirit outstrips the capacity of a believer’s flesh. And you know this experience. As long as you live in this mortal body, you experience this tussle. The spirit is willing; the flesh is weak. You never quite become the believer that you want to be. You never quite make the progress in sanctification that you wish you were able to make.

But believers who go into his presence, their souls are made perfect entering into the presence of Jesus. That’s why it says in Revelation chapter 7 that they serve him day and night in his temple. There’s no more sluggishness, no more tiredness, no more discouragement, no more jadedness. More alive, more vigorous, more energetic than you have ever been before. That’s a glorious vision. That’s not a half-life. That is what lies ahead for a Christian believer in the presence of Jesus. With Christ, fully conscious, actively engaged, and eagerly waiting.

Steve Hiller: You’re listening to *Open the Bible* with Pastor Colin Smith, a message called "What Will It Be Like in Heaven?" and we’re going to pause here but get back to the message in just a moment, so I hope you’ll stay with us.

The story of the thief on the cross really shows us what it takes to get to heaven. It’s all about what Jesus has done for us. And we have a one-hour film that’s been translated into over 20 languages that tells that story of the thief on the cross, how he went from being crucified next to Jesus to spending his eternity in heaven with Jesus.

If you want to check out this film in languages like Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Russian, Farsi, Hindi, and many others, come visit our website, openthebible.org/heaven. And you’re going to see the film *Heaven, How I Got Here*, the story of the thief on the cross. Again, our website address is openthebible.org/heaven. Let’s get back to the message. Again, here is Pastor Colin.

Colin Smith: Now, remember, and this is very important, that there is a big difference between heaven as it is now and heaven as it will be when there is a new heaven and a new earth. Believers who have died are with Christ, they are fully conscious, they are actively engaged right now, but there are some things they do not yet have. They do not yet have the resurrection body. They do not yet have the new heaven or the new earth. They do not yet have the whole family of God gathered together in Jesus Christ saying in triumph, "Here I am and the children you have given me."

So please always remember, and this is wonderful to think about, that for a Christian believer, there is a good, better, best pattern to life. To be in Christ is good. It is really good. When life in this world is at its hardest for you, you are blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ Jesus. It is good. But to be with Christ is better, better by far than anything you have known or anything that you can know in your Christian experience or in your life in this world.

But even for those who are in heaven now, the best is yet to be. And you see that very clearly in Revelation chapter 6, where John sees the souls of believers in heaven. He doesn’t see the souls of all believers at this point; he sees the souls of some believers, and in particular, he sees the souls of believers who have been martyred, who have laid down their life on account of the Word of God and the testimony that they have borne to Jesus.

And notice what they’re saying in the presence of Jesus, in heaven, as John sees it opened. These believers, they cry out to God, "How long? How long, O Lord, until the evils of this present world are brought to an end? How long, O Lord, until the sufferings of your people are brought to an end? How long, O Lord, until King Jesus returns in power and glory and we get to come with him? How long until the day you have promised, when all his enemies will be placed under his feet? How long until the day that has been prophesied in both Old and New Testament that there will be a new heaven and that there will be a new earth and that it will be the home of righteousness?" And they are told that they must wait.

Herman Bavinck, the great Dutch theologian, has a fascinating comment on the experience of believers in the presence of Jesus that is based on these verses. I’ve been thinking about this. It intrigued me, it’s fascinated me since first I came across it some years ago, and so I just give it to you. It will cause you to think, and I encourage you just to ponder its implications.

He says this of the experience of believers in the presence of Jesus: "They have a past which they remember, a present in which they live, and a future which they are approaching." They have a past which they remember. They know what they’ve been saved out of, and as a Christian always should, cause that to glorify God for his great mercy and for his grace. A present that they enjoy and that they are given. And they have a future that they are approaching and that they are anticipating. They up there are saying, as we say down here, "Lord Jesus, come quickly."

In the last year, we have grieved over the loss of many who have been slain for the Word of God and for the testimony of Jesus. We’ve grieved over two members of our own congregation who laid down their lives one year ago this coming week.

And here we are told in these verses that there is a definite number known to God of those who will lay down their lives for the sake of Christ. And every time you hear of a brother or a sister killed on account of being a Christian, you should self-consciously say, "The coming of Jesus just got nearer." It got a whole lot nearer in the last 12 months. A whole lot nearer according to these verses of Scripture.

And one day, the last act of violence will be perpetrated and the last martyr will be killed, and the Father will say to the Son, "That’s it. Go wrap this thing up and bring my children home." And Christ will come in glory. And our loved ones who have gone ahead will come with him and be with him, and we will be joined to him and reunited with them, and so we shall be forever with the Lord. Loved ones who have died in Christ, they’re with Christ. They’re fully conscious, they’re actively engaged, and they are eagerly waiting.

So use these truths in these two ways. First, use this as a means of comfort. Use this as something you lean into when you grieve over the loss of a dear loved one. And let me give you this encouragement. Whenever you think of what you have lost, try your best to turn your mind to what they have gained. Whenever you think of what you have lost, and you often will, do your best to turn your mind to think about what it is that they have gained.

They would not wish to be back if they could. And if you could see what they see and what they enjoy right now, it would never occur to you to wish them back either. And God’s calling to you right now is that you should press forward in your journey of faith, in your life of obedience, and that you should do it all the more wholeheartedly as heaven in this sense has come nearer to you. You must now press more vigorously towards the prize that they, the ones you love, already enjoy.

So use it for your comfort and then use it, lastly, for your courage. You don’t need me to tell you that this world is increasingly hostile towards Christian believers. And I don’t see any reason from the Bible to expect that to change. As best I can tell, the indication of the Scripture is that as the coming of Jesus gets nearer, the darkness just gets darker. And precisely because the darkness gets darker, the light therefore shines more brightly and more clearly.

In other words, as we move towards the coming of Jesus, the so-called middle ground of people who are neither particularly committed to Jesus nor particularly antagonistic against him, that middle ground just gets cleared out more and more and more until it’s evacuated altogether.

So if you are one of these people who says, "I think faith is a good thing, but I’m not personally committed to Jesus Christ," understand this: you can expect to have less and less company on that ground. And in the end, nobody will be on that ground where you are standing right now. Nobody.

And so here’s what I’m asking of you today: that you should take courage in hand and that you today should step out and take your stand with Jesus Christ and nail your colors to the mast. That you would confess him as Lord of your life, that you would do what the thief on the cross did when the vast majority of people were hurling abuse at Jesus. What did the thief on the cross do? He stood out and he said, "Remember me."

He put his trust in Jesus. He turned to Jesus when others were turning against him. And Jesus said, "You will be with me in paradise." Why wouldn’t you do that today? Why wouldn’t you let these truths that have been coming to us from the Bible lead you to Jesus Christ and say, "I am going to take my stand with him. I can no longer stand in this supposed middle ground that will be empty on the last day when Jesus Christ comes in power and in glory."

And if you are a believer, let this give you courage in the way that you live this week. Tell Christ that you love him, that you will serve him, and that when it is costly, as it will be, you will view this as your share in his suffering. And then, like Jesus, that you will draw strength even this week from the joy that today from the Bible is set before you.

Jesus said, "Whoever would save his life, whoever goes through life saying, 'It's my life, I'm going to live it for me,' that person will lose it. But whoever loses his life for me, for my sake and for the gospel, will find it. He’ll keep it. He’ll have it for eternal life."

Steve Hiller: Really a helpful look today here on *Open the Bible* of how we can use the truths of those who have died in the Lord to comfort those and ourselves when we think of those who have died and are now with Jesus, and how we can live with courage today. Well, today’s message, "What Will It Be Like in Heaven?" is part of a larger series simply entitled "Heaven." You can find out more about it when you come to our website, openthebible.org.

Well, *Open the Bible* is able to be on this station, more able to make the podcast, the app, and other resources available because of your generosity. And as you give a gift of any amount this month, we want to send you three copies of our first graphic novel inspired by Pastor Colin’s book, *Heaven, How I Got Here: The Story of the Thief on the Cross*, plus we’ll send one copy of the original book. But Colin, what is one thing that you’d like people to take away from this new graphic novel?

Colin Smith: Well, it would be that when God draws near, he comes to give us what we do not have. That’s the message of grace, and it’s the greatest good news in all of the world. You know, C.H. Spurgeon used to tell a story about a pastor who took money one day to an old lady who was in great need. And he knocked on the door and she didn’t answer. And eventually, the pastor went home.

He saw her the next Sunday, and he said, "Well, I came with a gift to your home." And she said, "Oh, when did you come?" And he told her, and she said, "Oh, I heard you knock on the door, but I didn’t open the door because I thought you were the man coming to collect the rent." Now, you see, I think that’s where many people are. They have this idea that if God draws near, he’s calling for the rent. He’s coming to demand something from us.

There are millions of people who have never understood grace, and their whole idea of Christianity is that they’re going to be told what they need to do and what they need to be, and they don’t have either the desire or the ability to do it. And the story of the thief on the cross just blows that out of the water.

Here’s this person who has not lived a life that has been pleasing to God at all. And instead of coming with a demand, the Lord Jesus Christ gives the most marvelous gift: he opens heaven for this man who believes. So here’s an opportunity with a graphic novel, a simple pictorial presentation of this marvelous story of God’s compelling grace.

You could put it into people’s hands. We’d love to see this graphic novel getting into the hands of as many people as possible, people who need to understand grace—a younger person in your family, someone who is trying to live a good life but really hasn’t understood the heart of the gospel. You could be the means of getting a simple presentation of God’s grace into their hands. We’d love to encourage you to do that and hope that this graphic novel will be useful to you in that regard.

Steve Hiller: Well, we want to send you three copies of the graphic novel plus the original book, *Heaven, How I Got Here: The Story of the Thief on the Cross*, as our way of saying thank you for your financial support this month. You can give at our website, openthebible.org, or when you call 1-877-OPEN-365. That’s 1-877-673-6365 or openthebible.org. For Pastor Colin Smith, I’m Steve Hiller. Thanks for listening, and I hope you’ll join us next time. This program is a listener-supported production of *Open the Bible*.

Colin Smith: Hi, this is Pastor Colin again, and I want you to know about *Watch Your Life*. *Watch Your Life* is a six-session course that is geared for leaders but accessible to every believer. The six sessions will show you how to grow in godliness, how to feed on Christ, how to pray in the spirit, how to battle temptation, exercise faith, and discern God’s will. There are questions at the end of each session, and you can use them on your own or you can discuss them with a friend. For more information, visit openthebible.org/courses. That’s openthebible.org/courses.