When Loving the World Costs You Everything
Can a Christian love God and still chase the world? Pastor Jeff Schreve answers that question with biblical clarity and urgency, showing how friendship with the world leads to spiritual loss, inner torment, and broken fellowship with God. Through vivid stories and practical truth, this episode reveals the cost of compromise and the grace God offers to those willing to repent, humble themselves, and draw near once again.
Dr. Jeff Schreve: God is a jealous God, but he's not jealous of you. He's jealous for you. He wants what's best for you. And what is best for you, what is best for me, is to walk with God and to enjoy him forever. The chief aim of man is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever. God is a good God. In his presence is fullness of joy, and in his right hand there are pleasures forevermore.
Hey, it's easy to make friends with the world. It's easy to go after other gods. It's wonderful to know that we can make our way back to God.
Larry Nobles: Worse than physical adultery is spiritual adultery. But what is that? It's when we've been saved and rescued and blessed by God, but we're willfully wandering from him and going after other lovers, so to speak, other gods. Bottom line, it's when we depart from the God we love.
All throughout the Old Testament, God's Old Testament people struggled with it. Spiritual adultery. It's a horrible sin, and God tells us in his word what to do about it. This is From His Heart with Pastor Jeff Schreve. Thank you for being with us today for today's lesson from the series Soul on Fire: God's Plan for Revival.
If you missed any of these lessons so far this month, go to fromhisheart.org and click the listen link to catch up. Now though, open your Bible to the book of James chapter four as Pastor Jeff concludes this timely and beneficial lesson called spiritual adultery. Here again is Pastor Jeff.
Dr. Jeff Schreve: Spiritual adultery. What is it? It is making friends with the world. Making friends with the world. Look at verse four again. "You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever wishes to make himself a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."
John says in 1 John chapter 2 verse 15, "Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." Now, God is anti-the world because the world is anti-God. And when the Lord says do not love the world because if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, when the Lord says we're spiritual adulterers when we go after the world, he's talking about the world system, the world system that is anti-God.
Beware of desiring the things of the world. Do not love the world nor the things in the world. For if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away and also its lusts, but the one who does the will of God abides forever.
Nobody goes into marriage saying, well, I'm good with my spouse is good with me loving her some of the time, but then I love these other women some of the time. No, it doesn't work like that. And God says you can't do that because you become an adulteress and you become a friend of the world, and any friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Beware of desiring the things of the world and thinking that you can serve God and enjoy the world. Beware when your heart starts to desire the things of the world. The love of the Father is not in you. There's a serious love problem when that happens. You are missing out on the love of the Father. And when you think you can do both, you cannot do both.
And then beware of thinking that you can get away with it. You can't get away with it. I can't get away with it. We can't get away with it. It's impossible. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. If you put yourself in the category of an enemy of God and you love the world and you make yourself an enemy of God, you're going to experience chastisement from the Lord. And one of the ways that you can know if you are truly a Christian: how does sin affect you? When you sin, does it bother you?
You know what the Bible says about Lot? Lot in Genesis 13, he moves his tents, he pitches his tents toward Sodom. But then you read about Lot in Genesis chapter 19, and he's living in Sodom. He's lived there for about 20 years, and he's some kind of alderman there in Sodom. He has some kind of a public title as an official, and he's living among the people. And the Bible says about Lot in 2 Peter chapter 2 that he was a righteous man.
He was a believer. He was genuinely saved. But he was a righteous man who lived among unrighteous people, and it says that he had his soul tormented day after day with their lawless deeds. Tormented, same word that's used for hell when a person is tormented in hell. Lot had hell on earth because he thought he could serve God and enjoy the world, and you can't do that. And there are bills that come due when you try and do that.
And you read the story of Lot. God sent two angels to Sodom. They rescued Lot and his two daughters out of Sodom. Couldn't get his wife out. She longed for the city of Sodom. The message from the angel was don't turn back, but she turned back and she was consumed in the judgment, turned into a pillar of salt. And Lot goes and we find him in a cave. He's made drunk by his daughters. He ends up having sex with both daughters, has two children from both daughters, and then the story of Genesis 19 closes on the life of Lot.
What a miserable life he lived. What a horrible situation was that. Why? He desired the things of the world. He thought he could do both and he lost it all. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
You know what the world needs to see from the church? They don't need to see us being more and more like the world. Have you noticed that churches, they try so hard? We just want to fit in. We just want to be like the world. We just want to have a little cocktail of evangelism and we're going to have a fish fry and a beer bust at the church and you all come on and we're just going to have a great time. My daughter told me at one church she went to in Austin that they would at staff meeting they'd have open bar. Good grief. I couldn't believe it.
But we're just going to be just like the world. The world is not interested in you being like them. That's not going to attract people. We are to come out and be separate, says the Lord. Billy Graham said this years ago: "Those outside the church expect followers of Christ to live differently. Yet today many in the church are chasing after the world, not to win the world, but to be like the world."
We're not to be like the world. And if you love the world, the love of the Father is not in you and you make yourself an enemy of God. Spiritual adultery. Making friends with the world. Spiritual adultery. It starts in the heart and then it seeps out into your actions. Well, what do you do if you're guilty of spiritual adultery? What do you do if you've left the God you've loved for other gods, whether it's money, whether it's sex, whether it's success, whatever it might be? Well, spiritual adultery requires spiritual reconciliation. We can be reconciled to God.
Larry Nobles: Pastor Jeff Schreve returns on From His Heart in just a moment to conclude the lesson Spiritual Adultery. When spiritual adultery happens, it's when a believer, someone already redeemed by God's grace, turns their heart toward other loves, things like comfort, success, approval, possessions, or even other relationships, and gives them the devotion that belongs only to God.
It's not about physical unfaithfulness, but about divided loyalty in your soul. The remedy, as Scripture shows, is heartfelt repentance, a return to his word, and renewed love for him. In other words, revival begins when the heart stops chasing other loves and comes back home to God again.
To help you get there, we'd like to send you Pastor Jeff's series Soul on Fire: God's Plan for Revival. It's our thank you for your gift this month to From His Heart of any amount. Just call 866-40-BIBLE to make your gift. 866-40-BIBLE or go to fromhisheart.org. And when you do, we'll send it to you in the format of your choice. May you find freedom from spiritual adultery. Let's conclude now this important lesson.
Dr. Jeff Schreve: Listen to what the Lord says to unfaithful Israel in Jeremiah chapter 3: "Unfaithful Israel, come back to me. I am merciful and will not be angry. I will not be angry with you forever. Only admit that you are guilty and that you have rebelled against the Lord your God. Confess that under every green tree you have given your love to foreign gods and that you have not obeyed my commandments, my commands. I the Lord have spoken. Unfaithful people, come back. You belong to me."
God is so good. He's so merciful. He's so kind. And he says, hey, you have left me for other gods. Come back to me. Spiritual adultery requires spiritual reconciliation. The Lord says in Malachi chapter 3, the last book of the Old Testament, "Return to me and I will return to you," says the Lord of hosts.
So what is the way back? Four steps. First step: come to your senses. You want to come back to God, you've left the God you love for other gods, for other things, for the things of this world? You come to your senses, just like the prodigal son who said to his dad, "Dad, I can't wait around forever for you to die. Give me the share of the inheritance that belongs to me." And the father, brokenheartedly, does that for the younger son. And he takes the money and he wastes it on wine, women, and song.
And then the Bible says the money ran out and then the famine came. And nobody was giving anything to this prodigal son. And he couldn't, he was starving to death. And the only job he could get was feeding the pigs. A Jew feeding the pigs. It was horrible. It's the lowest that you can get, except it goes lower because he's longing to eat the pig slop that the pigs were eating.
And then the Bible says, Luke chapter 15, that this boy came to his senses. He says, "Wait a minute. I'm getting ready to eat pig slop. I'm so hungry. Don't my father's hired men have enough food to eat? They don't eat pig slop. My father feeds them." He said, "I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to get up and go to my father and say, Father, I've sinned against heaven and in your sight. I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired men."
He came to his senses. You will never return to God until you come to your senses, until you understand as it says in Revelation 2 verse 5, "Remember therefore from where you have fallen and come to your senses." You know, James says in verse 9 of chapter 4, "Be miserable and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom." What's he talking about? When you come to your senses and you see that you've been adulterous against God, then it breaks your heart. Oh no, what have I done with my life?
You come to your senses. I like a phrase that Dr. Phil is famous for where he talks to people, and people who are going in the wrong direction in life and he'll say to them, "How's that working for you?" You know, you talk to the prodigal son as he's getting ready to eat the pig slop. Say, "Hey, prodigal son, you left your father who loves you and you wasted all his wealth and you insulted him to the nth degree. And now you're at the pigsty. How's that working for you?" It's not working well at all. You come to your senses. That's the first step.
Second step: you humble yourself before God. You can't get right with God until you humble yourself before God. Verse 6, "He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says God is opposed to the proud, but he gives grace to the humble." God lines up against the proud. He resists the proud. Think about it in terms of football. In football, you have the offensive lineman going up against the defensive lineman. So here you are and you're the offensive tackle and you're going up against the defensive tackle. What if the defensive tackle is God? You're going to lose that battle.
God is opposed to the proud. He resists the proud, but he gives grace to the humble. Verse 10 says, "Humble yourselves therefore in the presence of the Lord, and he will exalt you." Proverbs 6, there are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to him. Number one on God's hate list: a proud look, haughty eyes. God hates pride. God hates pride.
And so if I'm going to get right with God, I come to my senses. Here I am just in keeping with the illustration. Here I am the prodigal. I come to my senses and I know that I have dishonored my father in such a tremendous way. And I'm going to humble myself. I'm going to get up from here and I have to humble myself before my father because I can't get right with him unless I humble myself. He's opposed to the proud. He gives grace to the humble.
Psalm 51, great psalm, David's psalm of confession. David, who sinned terribly with Bathsheba and then Uriah the Hittite, had him killed in battle. He says, "For you do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it. You are not pleased with burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit and a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." When you come to the Lord in brokenness, in humility, God responds to that.
1 Peter chapter 5 verse 6, the Scripture says, "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God." Pharaoh, who was so full of pride, Pharaoh who thought he was a big shot, and Pharaoh who said, "Who is the Lord that I should obey his voice?" When God brought plague after plague after plague, Pharaoh would not humble his heart, and he was crushed and destroyed under the mighty hand of God as he tried to say, "Look how tough I am." Listen, you'll never get right with God until you take that first step: come to your senses. Take that second step: humble yourself before the Lord.
And then the third step: submit yourself to God. Verse 7, "Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." Submit, that's a military term, hupotasso. It means to rank under. Put yourself under like a private would put himself under a sergeant. Rank under. And I put myself under the Lord and I submit myself to him and to his will. And I say with the Lord Jesus, "Father, not my will but yours be done in my life." I've been going my own way. I've been doing my own thing. But now I humble myself and I put myself under your authority and under your word once again.
Submit therefore to God and resist the devil and he will flee from you. That's a good verse. Why? Because the devil's going to come at us. The devil uses the world and the flesh to come at us. And so we can resist. We can stand firm against the schemes of the devil. You know, when the devil came at Jesus in Matthew chapter 4 in the wilderness, "If you're the son of God, command these stones to become bread." He came at him three different times.
And Jesus always responded with the word of God. "Man shall not live by bread alone but every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." Now, Jesus is God. Scripture is the word of God. Jesus, anything he says is the word of God. But how does he respond to the devil? He responds to the devil with Scripture. Every temptation he responds with Scripture. That's not for him. That's for us. That's to help us.
And so the devil comes with three temptations and Jesus hits the devil back with the sharp sword of the word of God and then he says to him, "Begone Satan. Begone Satan. You shall not put the Lord your God to the test. You shall worship and serve him only." And the devil left him. Hey, resist the devil and he will leave you. He will flee from you as we put ourselves under the Lord and say, "Lord, your ways are right concerning everything."
And then step number four: draw near to God and be made clean. Draw near to God and be made clean. Verse 8, "Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded." Isn't it wonderful about the prodigal son? When he came to his senses and when he left the pigsty and he had his speech all memorized: "I will say to my father, Father, I've sinned against heaven and in your sight. I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired men." And he gets up from the pigsty and he makes the way home.
And the Bible says when the father saw him a long way off, he girded up his robe and he ran to his son. Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. If you'll take one step toward the Savior, my friend, you'll find his arms open wide. God is a good God, a loving God, a forgiving God. Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
We put our hands, our filthy sinful hands under the blood of Christ, and they are cleansed. And we take our heart and when it says purify your heart, that word purify means to sanctify your heart, to set it apart. It's from the root that means to be holy. Here's the problem with your heart and my heart: as the song says, our heart prone to wander, but our hearts are so prone to be double-minded. To say, "Well, yes, I want to serve God but man, I really struggle with greed. I really struggle with wanting more and more and more. I really struggle with lust. I really struggle with bitterness. I really struggle with getting even."
And so you're double-minded. You want to serve God but you want to do those other things. Purify your hearts, set apart your hearts, you double-minded. Paul said to the Corinthians, "But I am afraid lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. The singleness of focus of devotion to Christ." So you're not double-minded anymore.
You say, "Lord, I've decided to follow Jesus. No turning back. No turning back. Though none go with me, still I will follow." And when I feel the temptation come, I resist the devil and I claim the word and I put myself under the lordship of Christ. And I say no to that temptation. And I know that the spirit, verse 5, that he has given me dwells in me. He jealously desires me just for himself because he knows, listen, God is a jealous God but he's not jealous of you. He's jealous for you.
He wants what's best for you. And what is best for you, what is best for me, is to walk with God and to enjoy him forever. The chief aim of man is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever. God is a good God. In his presence is fullness of joy, and in his right hand there are pleasures forevermore. Hey, it's easy to make friends with the world. It's easy to go after other gods. It's wonderful to know that we can make our way back to God.
I don't know where you are today. But if you've gone after the world and you feel like the prodigal son that, man, I've wrecked and ruined my life and now I'm here at the pigsty because that's where anytime you leave the Father, that's where it ends up. It always ends up in the pigsty. There might be some fun and games along the way, but it's going to end up at the same place, the pigsty. And you find yourself at the pigsty, maybe you're there today, and you say there's no hope for me. There are two words for you: turn around.
Turn around. There's a God who loves you. Listen to it again: "Unfaithful Israel, come back to me. I am merciful and will not be angry. I will not be angry with you forever. Only admit that you are guilty and that you have rebelled against the Lord your God. Confess that under every green tree you have given your love to foreign gods and that you have not obeyed my commandments. I the Lord have spoken. Unfaithful people, come back. You belong to me."
Larry Nobles: Here is the takeaway today after this challenging lesson. If you've been committing spiritual adultery and you know it, perhaps you're feeling God's persistent and relentless tug at your heart and mind to turn from your sin and back to the Lord. If so, now is the time to pray. Pray and ask God's forgiveness and ask him to give you a renewed and passionate desire to serve him in all things in your life.
Reach deep down into your heart and say, "God, here is my life. Take it back and help me to be the Christian you created me to be and to be the witness you want me to be." And then make sure you connect with some faithful Christian friends and family who can encourage you, be a model for you, and be a reminder that life's surrender to Christ will show as a thanks to Jesus for what he did for you and not as an effort to earn that salvation.
When you're there, we hope you'll request a copy of today's lesson and the whole series Soul on Fire: God's Plan for Revival. It's our gift to you for your support of any amount this month. Call 866-40-BIBLE. 866-40-BIBLE or go to fromhisheart.org.
Thank you for being with us here today on From His Heart. I'm Larry Nobles, inviting you to be here next time too for the next lesson in Pastor Jeff's series Soul on Fire: God's Plan for Revival. A lesson returning to God in prayer. That's on Friday when Pastor Jeff will open up God's word and share real truth, real love, and real hope from God's heart. Here on From His Heart.
Featured Offer
The hymn lyric hits the nail on the head, “Prone to wander, Lord I feel it. Prone to leave the God I love.” Because all of us are so prone to wander, we find ourselves so often in need of revival. And when revival hits a life, a family, a church, and a community, there is a spiritual awakening that takes place and people come to Christ in droves. In this series, Pastor Jeff Schreve shares God’s plan to bring the wanderer back into the fullness of a relationship with Him. Discover how you can be revived and have a soul on fire once again for the Lord Jesus Christ!
Past Episodes
- 12 Real Favorites - Vol 2
- 12 Real Favorites - Volume 1
- 12 Real Favorites - Volume 3
- 12 Timeless Favorites
- 24: Living in the Last Days
- A Decade of Favorites: The Top Ten
- A New Lease On Life
- A New Normal
- All I Want for Christmas
- And They Lived Happily Ever After
- And You Think You've Got Problems
- Arise and Build: Vol 1
- Arise and Build: Vol 2
- Attitude for Altitude
- Back on Track: Getting in on God's Purpose for Your Life
- Beauty for Ashes: The Story of Ruth
- Before There Were Kings: The Cost of Compromise
- Believe and See
- Believing God - Expecting Miracles
- Beyond Amazing: Understanding the Grace of God
- Beyond Ourselves
- Beyond the Glory
- Bold as a Lion
- Braveheart: Becoming a Warrior for Christ
- Breaking the Chains of Religion: Experiencing the Joy and Power of Authentic Christianity
- Built to Last
- Defending the Faith
- Desperate Households
- Discernment in a Day of Deception
- Divine Encounters: What Happens When People Meet the Master?
- Do You Hear What I Hear?
- Do You Want to be Blessed?
- Do You Want to be Free
- Do You Want to Experience His Glory?: In the Awe of God's Presence
- Dreams and Detours
- Face-Off: Fighting for the Faith
- Facing the Giants
- Faithful and True: Introducing the One and Only God
- Fake News
- Family Matters
- Famous Last Words
- Fear No Evil
- Footsteps
- For Such a Time as This
- Forever and Ever: The Reality of Eternal Heaven and Eternal Hell
- Foundations
- Fourth Quarter: How to Finish Strong for Jesus Christ
- Future Shock
- Get Real!: Authentic Christian Life in the Last Days
- God and Money: What the Bible Says About Managing Money
- God's Answer for your Fears
- God's Answer to Your Fears
- God's Last Word to a Lost Generation
- God's Message in Your Emotions
- God's Perfect Gift
- Got Trouble? What to Do When You Don't Know What to Do
- Growing Strong
- I Shouldn't Be Alive
- Impact Christmas
- It's A Wonderful Life
- It's All About Jesus
- It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas
- It's Not Easy Being Me
- Land of the Giants
- Let Us Adore Him
- Life Goes On: How to Face a New Normal
- Life is Hard...But God is Good
- Life Under the Sun
- Life's Big Questions
- Living on Purpose
- Location, Location, Location
- Making a Difference
- Making the Grade: Passing Life's Greatest Tests
- Man Up: God's Guide to Real Manhood
- Miracles! Then & Now
- Missing in Action
- Modern Family
- Money Matters
- More Than Conquerors
- No Wonder They Call it Amazing
- Nothing But the Truth
- Now Concerning Spiritual Gifts...
- Now That's a Tough One
- Ready to Rumble
- Real Online Favorites
- Return to Me
- Revelation - the Triumph of the Lamb
- Right on the Money
- Rising to the Challenge: A Study of the Book of Joshua
- Rock Your World
- Roller Coaster: Facing the Ups and Downs of Life
- Satisfaction Guaranteed
- Seasons
- Setting the House in Order: A Study from the book of Titus
- Shine
- Sin and Salvation
- Soldiers of the Cross
- Soul on Fire: God's Plan for Revival
- Standing in the Gap
- Sticking Points: Overcoming Obstacles to Faith
- Storms: What to Do in Troubled Times
- Strong and Courageous
- Strong Faith for Tough Times
- The Blessings of Christmas
- The Church in the Last Days
- The Days of Noah
- The Dividing Line: A Baby Changes Everything
- The Divine Design: God's Plan for Marriage and Family
- The God of Second Chances: Getting Your Life Back on Track
- The Greatest of These is Love
- The Heart of Worship
- The Joy of Christmas
- The Miracles of Christmas
- The Mysteries of the Kingdom
- The Next Step?
- The Power of Giving
- The Questions of Christmas
- The Recovery Room
- The School of Prayer
- The Things You Need to Know: A Study of 1 John
- The Three Gifts of Christmas
- The Thrill of Hope
- The Truth About...
- The Truth In Love
- The Unknown God
- The Walk
- There's No Place Like Heaven
- This is War!: Overcoming The World, The Flesh, and The Devil
- Turning Trials to Triumphs: 2 Corinthians
- We Are Family
- We Are Soldiers
- What a Beautiful Name: Isaiah's Description of the Promised Messiah
- What is His Name?
- When the Son of Man Comes: A Study of Matthew 24-25
- Who Is This Man?: The Gospel of Mark
- Why on Earth am I Here?
- Will God Bless America?
- Witness: Shine for Christ - Share Your Story
- Written in Stone: A Study of the Ten Commandments
Video from Dr. Jeff Schreve
Featured Offer
The hymn lyric hits the nail on the head, “Prone to wander, Lord I feel it. Prone to leave the God I love.” Because all of us are so prone to wander, we find ourselves so often in need of revival. And when revival hits a life, a family, a church, and a community, there is a spiritual awakening that takes place and people come to Christ in droves. In this series, Pastor Jeff Schreve shares God’s plan to bring the wanderer back into the fullness of a relationship with Him. Discover how you can be revived and have a soul on fire once again for the Lord Jesus Christ!
About From His Heart
From His Heart Ministries is the TV, Radio and Internet broadcast outreach of Dr. Jeff Schreve who believes that no matter how badly you have messed up in life, God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. We’re on mission to help a new generation discover their creator through the preaching of the compassionate, relevant, yet uncompromised truth of the Gospel. Pastor Jeff speaks the truth in love with clear biblical content combined with engaging, personal stories. His messages are filled with life-giving principles for everyday living and eternal assurance.
On Television: From His Heart is seen each week on Lightsource and also around the world on The Hillsong Channel, NRBTV, The Walk TV, and hundreds of TV stations across America and around the world. Go to Click Here to find the station near you.
On Radio:Click Here to listen to the daily radio broadcast available on OnePlace.com as well as 720+ outlets across America.
About Dr. Jeff Schreve
Growing up in a church-going home, Jeff learned a lot about God, but he did not know God. He believed in Jesus in the same way he believed in George Washington: he knew Jesus was real, but had not personally met Him. All this changed one night after a Young Life meeting when he was alone in his bedroom. There Jeff saw his need for Christ and His forgiveness and surrendered his life to Jesus.
As a student at the University of Texas, Jeff grew in his Christian life. He graduated with a degree in business and moved back home to Houston, Texas to start a career in business. There he met his future wife, Debbie, at a single's group meeting at Champion Forest Baptist Church. They were married in 1986 and have been blessed with a wonderful relationship and three awesome daughters and two beautiful grandchildren.
A New Direction
After spending 13 years as a chemical salesman, God called Dr. Schreve to preach. He left his secure position and moved his family to North Carolina to attend Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. It was a scary and difficult move to make ... but it was one of the best decisions they have ever made. One year later, God called them to serve on staff at Champion Forest Baptist Church. In 2000, he completed his Master of Divinity degree graduating from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He graduated with a Doctor of Ministry degree in 2014 from Southeastern Seminary.
Jeff Schreve has been the senior Pastor of First Baptist Texarkana in 2003, a growing and exciting church with 4500+ members.
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