Turning Point

David Michael Jeremiah: Welcome to Turning Point. The disciples asked Jesus for signs of the end times, and many still want to know today. If you're one of them, stay tuned as Dr. David Jeremiah shares from his book and teaching series, *The World of the End: How Jesus' Prophecy Shapes Our Priorities*. To interview Dr. David Jeremiah about this prophecy and the signs to watch for, here's special guest Sheila Walsh.

Sheila Walsh: Won't you help me welcome Dr. David Jeremiah? I am so excited to be with you again. One of the things that we all know is that one of the trademarks of your ministry is that you make God's word so understandable. Even complicated passages, you teach them and we understand.

You are an authority on biblical prophecy, but you don't just teach biblical prophecy, you teach the entire word of God. But for this series, you've gone back to biblical prophecy. So I wanted to ask, why now and why this?

Dr. David Jeremiah: We have been studying the book *Where Do We Go From Here?* There was so much interest in that. During the time that I was finishing up that book, I was reminded of the fact that there's this portion of scripture in Matthew 24 that often gets neglected. In fact, many Bible teachers say it's the most neglected prophetic portion of God's word, and it's so strange because these are the words of Jesus.

I began to read those words and became overwhelmingly blessed by the way Jesus used some of his last words before he went to the cross to prepare his disciples and us for what's coming in the future. Of all the people that you want to listen to about what's going to happen in the future, you can choose a lot of experts, but you can't choose anybody better than Jesus.

One of the reasons for that, Sheila, is that he's timeless. He's God in the flesh and he's now God in heaven with the Father, but he lives in the present. Our future is still his present. When he talks about the future, he's already there and he knows what's going to happen because he's already experienced it.

You can have this confidence in what he says because you know it's the absolute truth. Instead of running around trying to figure out what did he say or what did she say, what's in this book or what's in that book, maybe it's a good idea for us to just take a few moments and listen to the Master.

Sheila Walsh: Amen. Is there a difference between the end of the world and the world of the end?

Dr. David Jeremiah: Yes. If I told you I was going to talk about the end of the world, you probably wouldn't have come because I don't know when the end of the world is. The Bible tells us we don't even have the right to speculate that. But I do know that we are in the world of the end. We are not at the end of the world, but we're in the world of the end.

In one of the passages, Jesus says, "But the end is not yet." In another passage, he calls what we're going to talk about the beginning of sorrows. While the end of the world is not tomorrow—at least I don't think so—we are in the world of the end. We're in the season. We may not know the day, we may not know the hour, but we can know the season.

We're in the season of prophecy. Anybody who studies the word of God seriously would have to admit that. I know people say they don't believe it, but because you don't believe it doesn't make it untrue. These are not my words, not Sheila's words. We didn't find this in some book of wisdom. This is Jesus on the Olivet Discourse.

Sheila Walsh: The subtitle of the book is *How Jesus' Prophecy Shapes Our Priorities*. The first message is titled "The Prophecy." I have to tell you, this message gave me chill bumps because you take us right to the moment when Jesus delivered these words. It's the last week of his life. We've had Palm Sunday. Monday, he's turned over the tables in the temple. Now it's Tuesday evening, and he's speaking to his closest friends. Why is this prophecy so important?

Dr. David Jeremiah: Jesus gave this prophecy on the Mount of Olives. Unlike what many people think, he didn't give it to all of his disciples, just four: Peter, James, John, and Andrew. He talked to these four disciples about what was to come, somewhat immediately and then ultimately.

Sheila Walsh: Amazing. As you studied this passage in Matthew 24, was there anything in particular that stood out to you?

Dr. David Jeremiah: Early on in this study, as I began to think about it, I found myself remembering how easy it is for us during times like this to ask the Lord to change our circumstances. Have you done that? During COVID, inflation, all the things that we talk about, "Lord, can you just please change this?"

Sometimes I think we should hear the Lord saying back to us, "You want me to change the circumstances so your life will be better, but I'm going to use the circumstances to make you better." As I began to think that way in this passage of scripture, I began to see all of these various things that God uses when we're going through tough times.

They don't get better. In fact, let's face it, we don't have the ability to change our circumstances, not even a little bit. Maybe we're asking the wrong question. Maybe the question is not what can I do to change the circumstances, but how can I let these circumstances change me so that I become a better person?

Sheila Walsh: That's fantastic. Moving on to the second message, which is "In a World of Deception, Be Honest." After the first message, it felt like there's a whole shift in the teaching and it's how to live in these days. How are you challenging us to live?

Dr. David Jeremiah: In every message in this book, there's a prophecy and then there's kind of like an imperative. For instance, in the message that you mentioned, I think you would say it this way: in a world of deception, what can you do? Just be honest. That seems so simple, and yet dishonesty is rampant among Christian people. It's rampant in churches.

If you're trying to deal with the deceit—and Jesus said, "See that you be not deceived"—when these things are going to happen, there are going to be people who stand up and say, "I am the Christ." We tell some stories in this book about people who actually did that, both in New Testament times and in our lifetime, who claimed that they knew when Jesus was coming back and all of this.

When you walk into the prophetic world, you walk into a world where if you're not careful, you can be deceived. You need to keep your head on straight and listen carefully and study carefully because Satan wants to use that environment to confuse you and deceive you. Jesus says, "Beware, don't be deceived."

Sheila Walsh: I can't think of a time in my lifetime when there's been so much confusion and deception. I think many of us wonder who on earth you can trust. How do we as God's children, as Christ's disciples, live in a time like this? Some days we just want to hide until it's all over.

Dr. David Jeremiah: That is true. It's surprising to me that the Bible has a lot of information to help us. First of all, we know the great deceiver is Satan. The Bible says he's the father of lies. There is no truth in him; there never has been. The Bible says he goes around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

I remember one day when it became apparent to me that he doesn't want to devour you personally; he wants to devour your influence. He wants to ruin you and your influence for Jesus Christ. Don't let him do it. Well, how do I keep him from doing it? His whole arsenal of ideas is in the third chapter of Genesis. Study it so you don't get caught up in it, and we kind of laid that out at the end of that chapter.

Sheila Walsh: The next message is titled "In a World of War, Be Calm." I cannot think of a more perfect message for the times that we are living in. When you hear on the news wars, rumors of wars, what comes to your mind?

Dr. David Jeremiah: I haven't lived through any major world wars. I was born in 1941 and the Second World War was coming to an end. I remember a little bit about it. But war is a part of the Bible. Jesus himself is called the Lord of armies. He is the Lord of war.

War is used in the New Testament as an illustration of how to live the Christian life. There's a whole section on the armament of the believer. War is not something we can avoid. When Jesus says that in the end times, you should be aware of the fact that just as a woman is going through pregnancy, her pain will be more frequent and more intense as she gets close to the time of birth, the issues of war will become more intense and more frequent as we come close to the time of the Lord's return.

So what Jesus is saying is, this isn't going to happen all of a sudden. You're not going to wake up one day and it's different totally than it was the day before. But little by little, as we move toward the end of the time, these events are going to take on greater frequency and greater intensity. That is what we're watching right now.

Sheila Walsh: When Jesus says, "When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed," how do we do that?

Dr. David Jeremiah: That's got to be one of the most counter-intuitive sections in the New Testament. You would think he would say, "You're going to hear of wars and rumors of wars, so go button down the hatches and get some food." But he doesn't say that. He says, "You're going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you be not troubled." Come on, Jesus.

But he meant that because, first of all, war doesn't take him by surprise. He has everything in control. He is the one who can bring peace to our hearts even when there's turmoil all around us. I love where Jesus says, "In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

It's interesting that when Jesus says there will be wars and rumors of wars, that statement "wars and rumors of wars," when it was first used in the Greek language, it was an idiom for world war. Jesus is probably saying, in the future, you're going to hear of world war. Here we are. I've heard that more than I've ever heard it before in the last 10, 15 years. That's what Jesus is saying. As you move toward these times, you're going to start to notice these things. You're going to hear of wars and rumors of wars, but don't be troubled. We are going to see some more, whether we like it or not.

Sheila Walsh: The next message is "In a World of Disasters, Be Confident." What do you think Jesus was talking about there when he talked about a world of disaster?

Dr. David Jeremiah: He actually tells us there are going to be diseases, there's going to be famine, and there's going to be earthquakes. What he's saying is, as we move toward the time when Jesus is to return, you're going to see more and more of that. We just came through a pandemic. It's the first universal pandemic any of us have ever known. We have not known anything like that before.

But what we learned there was that disease can infect a world, not just a nation. It infected the whole world. Every nation in the world had this COVID-19 stuff. Jesus said as you get closer to the time when I'm going to return, you're going to see more pestilence. That's disease.

I just saw a chart showing the frequency of earthquakes in our world and the intensity of them and the frequency of them. All Jesus is saying is, here are some things to watch for. These are not so much signs as they are indications that we are living in the world of the end. It's not the end of the world, but we're living in the world of the end. We're in the season of our Lord's return, and that's a very important principle for us to understand.

Sheila Walsh: Message five is "In a World of Persecution, Be Prepared." Honestly, interestingly enough, I found that one of the most encouraging messages that you have written. A lot of us tend to think, well, yeah, in the first century, believers were persecuted. We know what Nero did, all those people. That's really not such a problem anymore. What would you say to that?

Dr. David Jeremiah: When I was growing up, when I got 16, I guess my parents must have thought I was capable of handling it. They gave me a copy of *Foxe's Book of Martyrs*. They wanted me to read it, and it scared the living daylights out of me because it's the story of the suffering that Christians had gone through during that period of time for their faith.

I think probably growing up and even until middle adulthood, I just assumed that was stuff that happened in the past. But did you know that more persecution has happened in the last 70 years than have happened in all of history? Today, persecution touches every country. It is overwhelmingly serious in many countries of the world where the gospel is being pushed back.

It's starting to reach its ugly, icy fingers into the American culture. It's going to cost us more and more to be Christians. Our faith is going to be more challenged than it's ever been before. Jesus said that. He said you will be persecuted, you will be marginalized, you will be hated. Then we read in the Bible Jesus said, "If they hated me, don't be surprised if they hate you because you're my follower." Most of us have never experienced that. But given what I understand is going on in the world today, some of us will experience that before we go to heaven.

Sheila Walsh: This is why I found that message so compelling because I travel all around the world and the ministry of Turning Point goes all around the world, whether I've been in South Africa, Europe, Australia. There are people who even now are being persecuted and they will sit and they will listen to you. What would you say to them?

Dr. David Jeremiah: I would just say that the message that is so clearly spread throughout this whole collection of teachings is that God is enough and that God is with you. He has promised never to leave you, never to forsake you. I think there must be some kind of special connection with the Lord when you go through persecution.

Something happens to a person when they stand up for their faith and they're ridiculed or persecuted by others. All the Bible says is get ready for it. Don't be surprised when it happens. It's not something that happens to you because you've done something bad; it's something that happens to you because you're a faithful follower of Jesus Christ.

Sheila Walsh: In the next message, you talk about "In a World of Betrayal, Be Faithful." I don't think there's anything more personally hard to cope with than when you're betrayed, particularly by someone you love or someone you know or a fellow believer.

Dr. David Jeremiah: Betrayal is interesting because it can't happen unless it's someone you know and someone you love and someone you've trusted. You can't be betrayed by somebody you don't know. So betrayal means you've allowed somebody into your life, somebody into your world. You've trusted them with who you are, and they have violated that trust.

Nothing ever hurts like that. It's what happens when someone's unfaithful to their spouse. It's what happens in school when somebody you thought was your friend betrays you on the internet. It happens over and over again in our culture. Jesus said as we get closer to the time when he returns, betrayal is going to be more prominent than it's ever been.

People don't necessarily treasure their relationships as they once did. If it's not convenient for them or if it's better for them, they'll throw you under the bus in a minute. One of the ways you avoid betrayal is by how carefully you pick your friends. Here's kind of a little key that I discovered.

When you have a friend as a Christian, you need to ask yourself: is this friend helping me become more of a Christian and walk with the Lord, or is this friend pulling me away from my faith? I know a lot of people say, "Well, I'm going to be their friend and I'll win them to Christ," and I wonder how's that going? It doesn't work that way. If you're not careful, your ungodly friends won't allow you to be the person you want to be. So find friends that will walk with you in this journey, find friends that will encourage you, because if that friend is not a Christian, ultimately you're going to be compromised.

Sheila Walsh: In your seventh message, it's titled "In a World of Lawlessness, Be Kind." Have you ever seen such a lawless time in our country?

Dr. David Jeremiah: We do live in a world where law has been put aside and people do whatever they want to do. Where there's no law, there's no love. In that world in which we are now living, that should say something to us about: are we at the world of the end? Have you—like you said, I've never seen this before—what does that mean? It's greater than it used to be. It's more intense than it used to be. It's more frequent than it used to be. That tells us something. Jesus is saying when those things begin to happen, lift up your head, your redemption draws nigh. Right. Amen.

Sheila Walsh: You talk about, in that kind of lawless world, be kind. It's what we teach our children, just be kind. Why do you think we're struggling as adults to be kind?

Dr. David Jeremiah: Human nature is: if somebody is unkind to you, you be unkind to them. But for a Christian, the Bible flips the script. The Bible says if you have been treated in an unkind way, what does it say? "Bless those who mistreat you, bless those who persecute you." You say, well, that's not natural. It absolutely is not. It's supernatural.

That's what makes it such a Christian thing. You can do what other people can't do. I've seen it over and over again where people who have been hurt take the hurt and turn it back on the person in a gift of kindness or blessing or prayer, and God uses that to do miraculous things.

Sheila Walsh: Your next message is "In a World of Bad News, Be the Good News." I love the emphasis on not just sharing the good news, but being the good news.

Dr. David Jeremiah: Right. Well, the end of the prophecy that Jesus gave said that in the end of the world, the gospel will be preached to the end of the ages. The whole world will hear the gospel. The Bible says in that dark hour in tribulation, the world is going to experience its greatest revival.

There's no evidence in the Bible that there's going to be a great revival before Jesus returns. But the Bible is very clear about the fact that during the tribulation period, there will be thousands and thousands of people who come to Christ because the gospel will be heard around the world.

Sheila Walsh: For those who might not understand that, that's after the church has been raptured to be with Christ.

Dr. David Jeremiah: That's correct. I won't be preaching; I'll be up there. We'll be long gone.

Sheila Walsh: With all the bad news and everything we hear about every day, how do you maintain this spirit of hope and encouragement and inspiration that you always are to us?

Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, I read the last chapter. We win. Yeah. That'll do it. When you read the last chapter, you don't have to worry about what's going on now because you know where it's all going. God is in control.

The last part of that book, there's a whole section about living in a determined way, not being discouraged. Jesus told everybody that if you don't give up, if you don't give in, you will be saved. He doesn't mean saved in salvation, but you will come to the end and you will endure.

Endurance is a big deal right now. You can't just do what you feel like doing. That's the thing I've been learning more and more. It used to be it was nice and sunny, there weren't a lot of problems, you felt like getting up. Today you've got to tell your body, get in gear and go do what you're supposed to do. I know you don't feel like it, but do it anyway. You've got to talk to yourself because it's hard. This world is harder to live in than it's ever been since we've been here.

So what that means is we've got to be tougher than we've ever been. We have to have more endurance, we have to have more determination. I'm not going to let these things overwhelm me. I'm going to do the next thing that God wants me to do with all my heart. When you do that, you find a kind of joy and excitement about living your life that's hard to explain.

That's why I think that whole principle that we aren't to always pray the circumstances will be better so our life will be easier, but we should pray that God would use the circumstances to make us better so that we can be more effective for him, so that we can do our work with greater intensity and determination.

I believe God is going to do some incredible things during these days. I wrote this book to try to help us be prepared so that we don't get taken by surprise. The Bible says don't be surprised when these things happen to you. God has told us.

The thing I love about Jesus is he wants us to know the truth. He wants us to know the future. He goes out of his way on the Tuesday before he dies to give us the longest speech he ever gave about what's going to happen in the future. He says, "Please, hear me." We've studied that, and the Olivet Discourse is his message of love to us.

Sheila Walsh: Honestly, I found it so encouraging, and I know we all will. We can't wait to dive in deeper. But I just wondered, before we close, would you pray for us, Dr. Jeremiah?

Dr. David Jeremiah: Father, we know that we are living in the world of the end. We know that. We know that the things that are happening have never happened before, especially in conjunction with each other. We see, Lord, so many things that we've never seen before. We are experiencing these things.

We are so thankful that we are not alone and that we're not left without a word. You've given us your incredible word to help us know what to do. Help us not to be thrown off course by the things we've never experienced before, but to look to you for guidance and direction. Make us men and women of the word of God. May we study your book as never before because there we will find the hope and instruction and we will know what to do next. We pray that you would bless this message with your singular blessing as you do. In Jesus' name, Amen.

Sheila Walsh: Would you help me thank Dr. David Jeremiah?

David Michael Jeremiah: Well, the interviews that we do on these series are always so well received because they give you an overview of everything that's in the series, and we do it in 30 minutes, and that's because of the giftedness of Sheila as an interviewer and the content that we have.

Tomorrow, we begin the actual teaching of this series. You don't want to miss any of it. Tomorrow is "The Prophecy," an introduction to the words of Jesus from Matthew 24, one of the, if not the greatest, passage of prophetic importance in the Bible from the very lips of Jesus himself. We'll begin the discussion of that tomorrow in a message called "The Prophecy," and I hope you'll join us.

Don't forget you can get your copy of *The World of the End*, our resource for the month of April. It's yours for a gift of any size to Turning Point during this month. Just ask for it and we'll send it to you right away. It's our way of saying thank you for your generosity and adding value to your walk with the Lord through the printed page. Thanks again, and we'll see you right here tomorrow.

For more information on Dr. Jeremiah's series, *The World of the End*, please visit our website where we also offer two free ways to help you stay connected: our monthly magazine, *Turning Point*, and our daily email devotional. Sign up today at davidjeremiah.org/radio. That's davidjeremiah.org/radio. Or call us at 800-947-1993.

Ask for your copy of David's informative and inspiring book, *The World of the End*, with a special "Be the Answer" bookmark. Yours for a gift of any amount. You can also purchase the Jeremiah Study Bible in the English Standard, New International, and New King James Versions, complete with notes and articles from Dr. Jeremiah's decades of study. Get all the details when you visit our website: davidjeremiah.org/radio. This is David Michael Jeremiah. Join us tomorrow as we begin the series *The World of the End* on Turning Point with Dr. David Jeremiah.