Save America Ministries

Chuck Crismier: Many amazing things are happening and sometimes the amazing things are actually contradictory to one another. For instance, take this for example: Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy Jr., RFK Jr., has canceled the $500 million mRNA research.

Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. announced Tuesday that 22 mRNA vaccine development contracts have been canceled. Why? Well, it follows several weeks of a long internal review. Here is what they discovered. We reviewed the science, listened to the experts, and acted because the data show these vaccines fail to protect effectively against upper respiratory infections like COVID and flu.

Kennedy said the benefits simply do not outweigh the risks associated with mRNA vaccines. The mRNA technology was hailed as part of the quickly developed COVID-19 vaccine in 2020, yet it proved to be neither safe nor effective in warding off the virus, he said. This dynamic drives a phenomenon called antigenic shift, meaning that the vaccine paradoxically encourages new mutations and actually prolongs pandemics as the virus constantly mutates to escape the protective effects of the vaccine, said Kennedy.

Well, at the same time, the CDC, Centers for Disease Control, is now insisting that people get more COVID shots despite the long list of dangerous side effects. They were all introduced under an experimental label as manufacturers wanted to start selling them before the ordinary testing procedures were done.

The medical establishment, including such high-profile personalities like Anthony Fauci, who once insisted that arguing with him was arguing with science itself, publicly rejected existing treatments that could and did help some people, like Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine, because for the experimental products to be used, there was a requirement that other treatments not be available. And now comes this year's advisory in which the CDC repeatedly demands that people get the shots and without a single word about the potentially lethal side effects.

Well, friends, those two articles lead us to our conversation here today with Mary Holland. Mary Holland is the president of Children’s Health Defense, and Children’s Health Defense has actually commissioned the writing of a book called The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine: Facing Facts that Could Save Your Life. She's joining us here today to speak concerning this book. She's the president of Children’s Health Defense. Mary, it's good to have you on the program.

Mary Holland: Thanks for having me.

Chuck Crismier: These are challenging times and while the world supposedly is seeking for truth, one wonders if they really are.

Mary Holland: I couldn't agree more. The truth is disputed every day. And the story that you just covered about Kennedy's decision to discontinue funding for mRNA shots because they don't work, because they don't stop infection, because they haven't helped people, because it doesn't prospectively look effective, the mainstream media narrative in response to that is: no, these shots actually slowed the pandemic, they saved millions of lives; had we not had them, things would have been worse.

That's the level of the dispute of the truth. We really have moved into a kind of time when every fact, particularly in this area of health and so-called public health, is disputed. So this book that we're here to talk about, The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine: Facing Facts that Could Save Your Life, this is an unblemished, very well-documented truth-telling about the long-term history that medicine has always been hazardous.

That's the reason that since Greek times, doctors have been asked to take the Hippocratic oath: first, do no harm. Why? Because medicine can always be used as a tool of harm. This book catalogs that for hundreds of years, medicine has been used as a tool of harm, as I believe it absolutely was during the COVID era from 2020 to now. It's not really ended.

Chuck Crismier: Well, the love of money is still the root of much, if not all, evil, as the Bible itself declares. So we're looking at a situation here where people's minds and hearts and motivations are just as involved in the so-called practice of medicine and pharmacy as are the studies and all of the so-called college and university studies that doctors go through. And they're still people. They put their pants on one leg at a time like everybody else and are still motivated by the things that motivate other people: to compromise, to warp, to misrepresent, and even to promote that which they know is not dependable.

I remember, Mary, hearing Dr. Deborah Birx, who would join Dr. Fauci on television constantly. She was the scarf lady, very nice person it seemed. But she wrote a book after all of this seemed to start winding down a bit and appeared on a number of television programs across the country. I remember hearing her specifically say, "I never believed that the COVID shots were going to prevent people from getting the virus or would keep them from transmitting it." She said, "I never believed that." Yet she stood right beside Dr. Fauci, who proclaimed that constantly, and beside the president, who also was proclaiming it because that's what Dr. Fauci was saying. How do we make sense of this?

Mary Holland: Well, I think we say how outrageous, how despicable, how unaccountable. That's not what we, the taxpayers, pay our regulatory leaders to do: to lie to us. She was the coordinator of the COVID response. That was her job. If she thought that the shots were ineffective and unsafe, which they were, then wasn't it her responsibility to tell the American public and to dispute what Dr. Fauci was saying and to inform President Trump? That didn't happen.

There was, as you point out, the incentives during COVID were so distorted in a way on a level that I don't think we've seen before. Remember, the hospitals were paid for people to get COVID vaccines.

Chuck Crismier: We'll have to get into that after this break. Stay tuned, my friends. The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine: Facing Facts that Could Save Your Life. Twenty-six dollars will put this 32-dollar book in your hands. It’s on our website, saveus.org.

Once upon a time, children could pray and read their Bibles in school. Divorces were practically unknown, as was child abuse. In our once great America, virginity and chastity were popular virtues and homosexuality was an abomination. So what happened in just one generation? Hi, I’m Chuck Crismier, and I urge you to join me daily on Viewpoint where we discuss the most challenging issues touching our hearts and homes. Could America’s moral slide relate to the fourth commandment? Listen to Viewpoint on this radio station or anytime at saveus.org.

Today in the wake of the COVID-19 so-called medical response, pharmaceutical response, the deceptions that took place, the misrepresentations, the promotion, and what the promotion of these so-called vaccines were, which because they actually were not vaccines, the CDC itself had to revise the definition of vaccine in order to continue to call them vaccines. Because they discovered and admitted that they were not intended to either prevent you from getting the virus or from transmitting the virus, just as Dr. Birx had said.

So what was it for? Well, supposedly it was for keeping you from getting the worst effects of COVID. Did it do that? Some are saying now, after studies, that more people were killed by the so-called vaccines than were killed by the virus itself. I personally cannot verify any of those facts, but that's what we're now being told.

So today on Viewpoint, our special guest Mary Holland, who is the president of Children’s Health Defense that commissioned the writing of a book, The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine: Facing Facts that Could Save Your Life, which as I said is available on our website for 26 dollars. It’s a 33-dollar book, a hardbound book, and it contains a lot of information that may be very helpful to you. So go to the website, saveus.org, give us a call, 1-800-SAVE-USA, or write to us at Save America Ministries, P.O. Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia, 23255.

What about deceit and defects and deplorable habits and false promises? What does that have to do with medicine and what have been some of the consequences of it? Mary, just before the break, you were rolling into some deep waters. Do you remember what you were talking about?

Mary Holland: Sure. I am agreeing with you that health and healing and medicine really should be about the individual and it really should not be distorted by financial incentives or disincentives. The relationship between a healer, doctor, health care professional and a person in need should be about how can I make this person better and how can I first do no harm.

But what happened during COVID pervasively, but exists in American medicine today, is distortions through money. During COVID, I was saying that the hospitals were incentivized to put people on ventilators, they were incentivized to say that people had COVID, they were incentivized to declare the deaths were from COVID. Everything was done to amplify the fear of this pandemic.

Chuck Crismier: And when you say incentivized, you actually mean were given financial benefits for doing so.

Mary Holland: Hundreds of thousands of dollars. If somebody came to the hospital, was not given an effective treatment like Hydroxychloroquine to reduce their symptoms early on, they could be in the hospital for 20 days, they could rack up million-dollar payments from the government to the hospital. Everything about COVID—the testing, the vaccination, the protocols—they were all financially incentivized. And that is, in my view and in Children's Health Defense's view, an aberration of medicine. Everything should be based on what can I, the healer, do for this individual patient to make this person better.

Chuck Crismier: Well, actually, Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine were prohibited to be used or promoted precisely because the pharmaceutical companies insisted, "If you're going to use our jabs, then you cannot use those things. You can't promote them." So even there, you have a complete open and notorious violation of the Hippocratic oath.

Mary Holland: Absolutely. So we at Children’s Health Defense, which was founded by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., now the Secretary of Health and Human Services, engage in education, advocacy, science, and litigation. We have been representing some of the physicians who advised their patients and helped their patients procure Ivermectin because that's what they wanted and it's effective, and they lost their licenses.

Chuck Crismier: I was just with one such doctor that lost everything here in Virginia.

Mary Holland: Dr. Marik probably.

Chuck Crismier: No, it was another one. I don't want to mention the person's name.

Mary Holland: Anyway, yes, you're exactly right. Why were Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine suppressed worldwide? Because they were off-patent. They were cheap. They were inexpensive and very effective. And they would have precluded not only a market for the vaccines and Remdesivir, but they actually would have made the law that permitted emergency use authorization products, like the COVID shots and Remdesivir, they would have made them unlawful because one of the criteria for emergency use authorization products is that there is no effective treatment available.

So they had to suppress these things in order to pull off this scam and, in the process, they committed people to their deaths unnecessarily in our view. But the point of this book is to help us understand that this did not start with COVID. This has been a long-term medical perverted protocol that has existed internally for many decades, if not centuries, and we need to at least open it to public understanding so that we are prepared not just to accept everything that comes down the track as gospel.

Mary Holland: Exactly. The medical-pharmaceutical killing machine, which is a very scary concept, but if you don't recognize that hospitals and doctors can do things that can cause your death, you could fall prey. I am very sad as a child of two parents who were physicians that sadly, a lot of medicine today and especially during COVID became very predatory.

The sad truth that this book makes very clear is it's not the first time. Iatrogenesis—death due to medical treatment—is well known to be at least the third leading cause of death.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. Now, you're introducing a word I've been accused of using big words here. People say, "You use a lot of big words, but fortunately, I can understand you anyway." So here you're introducing another major big word that I'd never heard of before. Iatrogenesis. Can you help break that down for us, what that really looks like?

Mary Holland: Absolutely. So this is from Greek and "iatro" is a physician, a healer, and "genesis" means caused by or beginning of, like the book of Genesis. So iatrogenesis is doctor-caused. Iatrogenic death is a doctor-caused death. One of the concepts introduced into this book is the concept of iatrogenocide.

Is it possible that doctors, whether knowingly or not, are engaged in poisoning a population and creating a major engine of the economy, creating perverse incentives to do harm? We know that this is what Nazi doctors did in the 1930s. We do know that Nazi doctors played an absolutely critical role in the Holocaust. It was doctor-led. There were experimentations going on in the concentration camps. The first victims in World War II were disabled German children. They were not Jews.

So this is not the first time, sadly, that doctors have been used in criminal killing programs. I do believe—we did a movie that you can find on our website, childrenshealthdefense.org—if you look at CHD-TV, we have a movie there available for free called Vaxxed III: Authorized to Kill, showing that the hospitals during COVID really were authorized to enact protocols that consistently led to death, often absolutely clearly unnecessarily, and those deaths were financially incentivized.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now, I want to pick up on a word that you just used, and it's a word that I've been using more and more these days concerning the word protocol. Protocol is basically, as I understand it, kind of an accepted or standard way that doctors or hospitals or so on will proceed with a certain kind of situation. So they set it up as the protocol: this is just what we do. But what we do may not be what we need to do or what we should do. And so protocols can either serve us or destroy us, can't they?

Mary Holland: Absolutely. Absolutely. And what you're pointing to is there's been this kind of centralization of medicine in recent decades and the use of something called standard of care or the protocols that doctors and hospitals have to follow. If the protocol is bad and the doctor is required to follow it, otherwise he or she will be disciplined or lose their job, well, they will follow it.

Sadly, we saw during COVID in particular that doctors and hospitals were required to follow protocols that clearly, in many cases, were not in the best interest of the patient. But they were financially rewarded. Remember that in 2020, when the lockdowns were announced in March 2020, hospitals were closed down as well. So these institutions became close to financial bankruptcy. And so when they were then reopened for COVID patients and they were financially incentivized to find COVID, to hyper-test people until they got a COVID diagnosis, to put people on ventilators and so on, you saw really bad medical decisions being made.

Chuck Crismier: Okay. So iatrogenesis, this is medical, doctor, healer-caused harm or death. So let's try to put this in some sort of data perspective. Data is the big word these days. It’s a little word, but everybody's using it. Data is what's for sale. So what percentage of people, say, going into the hospital, come to find out were actually resulted in dying as a result of their treatment?

Mary Holland: Well, credible estimates are that 600,000 people in the United States died unnecessarily because of the shots and the protocols. But that's just a guess. I don't think real studies have been done.

Chuck Crismier: Let's not talk about COVID now, though. Let's talk about in general. Aren't there statistics that are showing or purporting to show the percentage of people who actually lose their lives because of inappropriate treatment, whether it's negligence or whether it's some other motivated protocol or whatever in a hospital or doctor's office?

Mary Holland: Well, as I mentioned, it's well accepted that medical error, unintentional death in hospitals, is the third leading cause of death after heart attacks and cancer. This book in particular disputes whether it really isn't number one or number two.

And we do know that excess mortality in the last several years during the COVID era, if you will, excess mortality—more people dying than had been dying for the five years before that on average—has increased significantly. So something went very wrong in COVID and, as I say, this book in particular just shows us that the medical-pharmaceutical complex has been centralizing things, creating these protocols, looking more and more at population medicine and potentially being used as a means of population control and also of potential depopulation.

One of the things that the book points out, someone that works with Children's Health Defense frequently, Catherine Austin Fitts, has traced 21 trillion dollars missing from the US official budget from the books. This has been verified by an economist at a university, Dr. Mark Skidmore at Michigan State University. And so she points out years ago that in order to balance the books, something is going to have to happen. They either have to stop stealing, or they have to increase the amount of taxes, or they have to lessen life expectancy. Those are the options because so much money has been siphoned out of the official books.

And so I think what we have seen during COVID is that now, because people died earlier than had been expected previously, life insurance companies certainly proved that, we see that the Social Security funds are now more robust than they were just a few years ago.

Chuck Crismier: Interesting. Okay. We'll pick up more with Mary Holland in just a moment after the break. The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine is the book. Twenty-six dollars will put this 33-dollar book in your hands. It’s on our website, saveus.org. We're just barely going to scratch the surface here on this issue.

There is so much more about Chuck Crismier and Save America Ministries on our website, saveus.org. For example, under the marriage section, God has marriage on His mind. Chuck has some great resources to strengthen your marriage. First off, a fact sheet on the state of the marital union, a fact sheet on the state of ministry, marriage, and morals, saveus.org. Marriage, divorce, and remarriage: what does the Bible really teach about this? Find all of this at saveus.org. Also, a letter to pastors, the Hosea Project, saveus.org, and many more resources to strengthen your marriage. It’s all on Chuck’s website, saveus.org. Again, you can listen to Chuck’s Viewpoint broadcasts live and archived, Save America Ministries website at saveus.org.

Many things under attack in the area of medicine and medical treatment and so on. And if you trace them down, you find that in many respects, they're under attack because they affect somebody's finances, a company's finances, which is paying money to politicians for their campaigns. Follow the money. Track the money.

So are we looking at people who are ministering health or ministering to their pocketbook? Well, I believe it's both. I do not personally believe that most doctors intentionally go out to harm people. I don't believe that. On the other hand, they're human beings and they're subject to the same kind of temptations that pastors are. All you have to do is follow the news, friends, and you find the same kind of things taking place in many of our churches that are taking place in medicine. Follow the money. Hate to put it so blunt. Does that mean we're against churches and against ministry? No, it doesn't mean that at all. It means that we're human beings and we need to have discernment as we go in and subject ourselves to these various things that, at the heart of them, are supposed to be good and do us well.

So that's what we're focusing on here today with our special guest Mary Holland, who is the president of Children’s Health Defense that was started by RFK Jr., and this book was commissioned for that purpose. She's not the author of the book, but she is the one who commissioned—as president, they've commissioned this book to be read. A chapter is titled "Deadly Medicine: How Do They Get Away With It?" How do they get away with it, Mary? Is it just because is it money? Power, money, power, perks, position?

Mary Holland: Well, I think money, power, control are major motivators. And I actually think that many doctors simply lie to themselves. Even when they see the evidence that Remdesivir kills people or that the shots aren't stopping spread and they're actually making people more vulnerable to infection, people can be willfully blind. Chuck, you're a lawyer, willful blindness is a legal concept that's real.

Chuck Crismier: It’s also a spiritual concept.

Mary Holland: Yes, of course. People can intentionally look the other way because it's too painful to confront the truth. Many doctors simply left mainstream medicine during this time because they would not participate in the lies. They would not participate in the corruption.

Chuck Crismier: And they suffered greatly. Some of them didn't leave voluntarily, they were kicked out.

Mary Holland: Exactly. And that was true in the military, that was true for workers in all kinds of settings. People for religious convictions of many different kinds wouldn't take the shots, and in many places, there were simply very bogus commissions pulled together that basically denied all religious exemptions.

But the book isn't all negative and it's not all depressing. It does say you need to be aware that medicine can be used against people for financial gains, for power gains, and it's not the first time. And so if you're aware of this, you're much less likely to simply say whatever your doctor says goes. You're going to ask your doctor questions. You may want to get a second opinion. You may want to look at alternatives.

The book in its final chapter talks about healing diets, detoxification and cleansing, homeopathy, herbal medicines, non-Western approaches, the Wim Hof method of using breathwork and cold exposure, coherence healing taught by Joe Dispenza, and many more. There are many, many approaches to healing and wellness and health that are far less dangerous than what is considered mainstream Western medicine today.

Chuck Crismier: I would say also, going back to the word protocol, that people need to... we're told that our medical treatment must be patient-led, not doctor-led. In other words, we have to inform ourselves and take charge of our treatment. And I found that to be true in my own instance just as late as a week ago. I contracted a situation that I had never experienced before, but looking into it, I did some study on my own part and found that there was one particular answer that was deemed to be most efficacious to deal with the problem. Well, guess what? That one thing that history and medicine proved to be most efficacious was not part of the protocol. Why wasn't it part of the protocol?

Well, part of it has to do with pharmaceuticals that were developed supposedly to, shall we say, go along with what might be called conservative medicine. In other words, we're going to do a gradual thing leading up to this, that, or the other. Well, in doing so, you're actually incurring more and more expense paying for more and more doctors' visits and more and more pharmaceuticals. So I told the doctor, I said, "Look, I can tell you right up front that your protocol is not going to be efficacious for me because," and I described certain situations why it would not be. So the doctor reluctantly prescribed the medication that was historically efficacious almost 100% for the situation. But I had to take the lead. And the doctor, I could tell, was reluctant because we serve our protocols, not our patients.

Mary Holland: And that's really what this book outlines, is that this didn't happen—and I think this is important for people to understand—COVID didn't come out of nowhere. It came out of a decades of creeping consolidation of medicine with the pharmaceutical industry and using treatments and protocols that were lucrative and not necessarily in the best interest of patients.

Think about the mergers and acquisitions in the hospitals. Think about how doctors, instead of being individual practitioners, have now moved so that most doctors are in huge practices and they are employees.

Chuck Crismier: And they're virtually owned by the hospitals.

Mary Holland: Correct. They have to follow the hospital rules. They're not making their own decisions. They're not allowed to kind of be professionally free. And think of what that does to us as patients. It makes us very vulnerable if, from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there's a bad protocol. It may be inflicted on us and the doctors in a way become the intermediary. They're not really the decision-maker anymore.

Chuck Crismier: Right. So that brings up the American Medical Association, the AMA, for instance. The American Medical Association virtually became a kind of judge and jury, a dictatorial system to tell doctors, "If you do not prescribe these pharmaceuticals, these jabs, then you're suspect and we're going to put you on trial." And if you prescribe any of these other alternatives like Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, or anything else, then you are by definition malpractice, negligent, and we're going to take away your license. What is a doctor to do?

Mary Holland: Right. So certainly the American Medical Association was in on that. Actually, it was more the state medical boards that have legal authority. It was the state medical boards or the specialty boards that really disciplined the doctors. But as I mentioned earlier, we provide legal counsel to several of these doctors and we think that the freedom for doctors to do what's in the best interest of patients and to follow the Hippocratic oath—first, do no harm—is absolutely critical.

And that was not observed during COVID. Но this is more general. Our focus at Children's Health Defense is on children's health. Over half of American children today have some kind of chronic health condition, be it obesity, allergies, ADHD, autism, diabetes. They're sick. There's chronic health. And one of the things that Secretary Kennedy is focused on is ending this epidemic of chronic disease.

But the American Academy of Pediatrics is the equivalent for children, 20% of the population, of the American Medical Association. And the American Academy of Pediatrics has been pushing vaccines. They've now been pushing these injections of GLP-1 antagonists for obesity, absolutely leapfrogging over diet or exercise, not having real science that justifies the childhood vaccine schedule where there were placebo-controlled trials and they tested all of them at once. AAP is not serving children; it is serving its masters—the pharmaceutical industry—that pay them, that pay the trade association effectively.

So just as we've talked about during COVID, there have been very serious perverse financial incentives for children's health, pediatric health now for decades. And it's deeply troubling. I think the good news here, Chuck, is that all of this is coming to the surface. It’s being exposed. Parents are seeing this, the public is seeing this, and the public is appalled. You mean you're putting a bonus structure in place for vaccination of children and you would vaccinate a child that you think could be harmed for your 40-dollar bonus on that shot? And the answer is yes, that is happening. And you're right, it's a temptation in a moral sense, and those temptations are very real in this world that we live in that really has elevated money over morals.

Chuck Crismier: Money over morals. That is the moniker describing this issue. Money over morals. I’m just writing that down here because that's exactly... you know, these phrases come at unsuspecting moments and that's really what it is. It's money over morals. And when we lose our moral standards, which we have in our country, the whole Western world has virtually abandoned its moral standards.

And that's what we talk about here on this program. That's why I left the practice of law: to plead an ultimate cause to a jury of my peers—first of all, the church in America, Christians, and then to our country as a whole—because we're in very dangerous territory. And this is just one application of it. We'll be right back after this with Mary Holland, friends, and the book The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine. Go to the website, saveus.org, get your copy for 26 dollars. It’ll be eye-opening.

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So the American Medical Association tells its audience that salt is literally killing people. But the book says a piece of advice that couldn't be further from the truth. Why would that be? Were one to eat a saltless diet, the eventual result would be gradual desiccation of the body and finally death.

So what's the problem? What is it that's driving these things? For instance, also, we were told that if you eat eggs, you're in great danger for your health. You're going to have all kinds of problems in the flow of your blood and so on. And whatever you do, don't eat egg yolks because... on the other hand, eggs are conceived to be the perfect protein. And our bodies demand protein. What are we supposed to believe? Why are these things driven? What do you say, Mary?

Mary Holland: Well, that is the question. Why has there been so much bad advice from medicine? And I think you can usually find an answer in the money answer. That it's more lucrative for the medical profession to have people be sick than it is to have them be healthy. And if you can somehow keep that big lie going, you can extract a lot of money.

This book talks about Toby Rogers, a really wonderful public commentator but a PhD in political economy who really studied autism, but more broadly understands how the medical industry in the United States is one of our biggest industries. It is extracting wealth through chronic disease and it ensures there are customers for life by actually setting up children to have chronic disabilities in life and be lifelong pill-takers.

Chuck Crismier: All right. Now, you're actually describing the situation now that has put Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in control by Donald Trump of this new approach to health. And he says, "No, we're not going to be focusing on response to medical problems, we're going to start focusing on preventing medical problems. In other words, preventing disease as opposed to treating disease." Well, that change of focus and policy is a threat to the entire pharmaceutical and medical industry, isn't it?

Mary Holland: Absolutely. He is a threat and they absolutely oppose his confirmation and they are fighting him actively tooth and nail in many different guises. And his mantra is "Make America Healthy Again." Not only make America great again, but make America healthy again.

Chuck Crismier: Well, I like that. We should buy into that, we should understand that, we should do that. But we have been addicted to the lordship, even the godhood, of science. Science has then become our master rather than our servant.

Mary Holland: But the science, so-called science, has been outrageously corrupted. So for instance, this week, Robert Kennedy came out with a fantastic editorial about a bogus study that came out of Denmark to somehow expiate any kind of and debunk allegedly any kind of connection between aluminum in vaccines and neurological damage to children. Aluminum is a well-known neurotoxin. And our scientists at Children’s Health Defense actually uncovered that the supplemental data that hadn't been published when the paper was proved the point that, no, the higher the level of aluminum, the more likely it is that somebody has neurological damage.

So Bobby Kennedy just wrote an editorial about this is a fraudulent... this is not science, this is fraud, this is deceit, and it should be retracted. What he really cares about in medicine and in health is transparency. We’ve got to start telling the truth. We can't figure anything out unless we have the truth. And you have to have choice. You have to have agency. We do have to be free to make the right decision, the wrong decision, but it needs to be our decision as humans, not a central controller or the World Health Organization—a global central control, which is the path that we were on.

I am grateful that Bobby Kennedy together with President Trump have said, "No, we're going to leave the World Health Organization," because this is leading towards medical tyranny. And the World Health Organization treaty was really setting up the world and still is—where we've objected to it—but it was setting up the world for constant pandemics because they're very lucrative to the people that are making these medical products that go along with the pandemics that can be compelled.

Chuck Crismier: And it also has to do with control and this is the reason why Bill Gates was heavily funding the World Health Organization and has dedicated himself to reducing the population. So when we start looking at these motivational factors that overlay, it causes us to have to use some discernment. Discernment seems to be in short supply these days, not only in our population as a whole but even among professing Christians where we direct this particular broadcast. And that's one reason why I tell you, Mary, after I've been doing this for 30 years now after I left the practice of law, it's like paddling a canoe straight up Niagara Falls.

Mary Holland: It’s not easy and it's not easy. I hear you. I do believe that COVID killed a lot of people. The whole pandemic experience was a deadly experience. But at the same time, it was an experience that did awaken many people. Millions, billions around the world. And I see it as a tremendous opportunity that is leading to things like Secretary Kennedy being in a position and creating this new political constellation and bringing transparency and creating new, better incentive systems for health.

So I do see that out of the ashes of what was a very traumatic global experience, I am seeing some green shoots that are very promising.

Chuck Crismier: That's very good, very well put. I was thinking about as you were chatting, I was in an airport years ago, maybe 15 years ago, and came across the newspaper that is trafficked through our airports, USA Today. And on the front cover was a very unusual front page. It had in about three or four-inch high green letters, not black and white but green letters, the word "Trust." The gist of the article was Americans are losing their trust, trust in our institutions, trust in everything.

And as I think about it, yes, an awful lot of people lost their lives as a result of both COVID and as a result of the jabs that did not do what they were promised, in fact did just the opposite. On the other hand, perhaps the greatest casualty of all was the breach of trust that the American people had in medicine, in political leaders, and so on. What say you?

Mary Holland: I agree with that. I think relationships of trust are extraordinarily valuable and they are in much shorter supply post-COVID. All of our major institutions—our religious institutions, our educational institutions, our governmental institutions, for the most part our journalism institutions—all of the mainstream institutions failed us. They told us lies, they parroted lies, they did not stand for the truth. They caved.

And the dissidents who did stand up, of which I would include myself and Children's Health Defense and Robert Kennedy for the most part, they suffered extreme penalties. We were suppressed, we were censored, we were disciplined.

Chuck Crismier: Well, million-dollar fees, taxes against churches that refused to close up, and yet there were pastors who said to their people, "If you don't take the jab, you don't love Jesus." What a deception, what an absolute mockery of the faith.

Mary Holland: And again, there were money changers there, right? They paid the churches, "Turn your church into a COVID vaccine clinic," and lots of them went with it. Money over morals, that's what we saw. And I think exposing this now is more important now than ever. Because if we don't do it now, it will be swept under the rug and we'll go along our merry way and it will happen again, Chuck. And it won't be so far off and it will happen again and some people will still comply again because they won't have understood the level of deception and deceit that existed during COVID.

Chuck Crismier: It's very interesting. The words deceit, deception, not only apply to something like the medical profession, what's happening here, but interestingly Jesus in Matthew chapter 24, just two days before His crucifixion, was asked by His disciples what would be the sign of the end of the age. And the very first thing He said was, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Then twice more in that chapter called the Olivet Discourse, He warned against the massive deception that would take place on our planet. He said the deception will be so great—and he was talking about spiritual deception but other kinds of deception that would link to spiritual deception—and he said the deception is going to be so great that if it were possible, even the very small remnant of true believers would be deceived. That is powerful deception and we're in that kind of age right now.

Your book says that these kinds of things have been sown throughout the ages, even going back in American history. But we're seeing it multiplied now with even increasing consequences and we are very susceptible to this kind of deception, aren't we?

Mary Holland: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Chuck Crismier: All right, so what do you want us to do?

Mary Holland: Well, I highly recommend this book. I did not write it, but it is an excellent book. For good reasons, the author that we contracted to do this did not want the name published because authors who write books like this that are hard-hitting like The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine, no, but you'll be smeared, you'll be discredited, you'll be called kooky, you'll be said, "Oh, it's a lie." It’s not a lie. This book has over 100 pages of footnotes. Everything here is well-documented, very well-written.

And it deals with this issue of plummeting trust that you and I just talked about. It deals with the new threats that are happening. It deals with: what is the reason for this, how does it happen, why does it happen, who are the Cassandras, who are the people who said that this could happen, who saw that medicine could be used as this tool through public health to create control and even depopulation? It’s a very comprehensive book. In 200 pages, it really gives you this big picture of: look, it doesn't mean you never go to see a doctor, it doesn't mean you can't trust a healer, but it means you must be careful because to preserve your life and the life of your loved ones, you must be skeptical.

Chuck Crismier: In other words, we have to take control of our health, first of all our health, and then our health care dealing with the issues that come in to impair our health. Both things need to be done together. And I think that's what RFK Jr. is focusing on: to reestablish, revamp our whole look at the health care system. It should be health care rather than disease maintenance.

Mary Holland: Exactly. What we're living in right now is sick care and we should be in a zone of preserving health, supporting health. And I think that is his vision of "Make America Healthy Again."

Chuck Crismier: I like that phrase, but I also like the phrase money over morals because that goes to the very motivational factor that drives so much of this distortion and perversion of that which otherwise we would want to trust those to whom we dedicate our health care. Friends, the book The Medical-Pharmaceutical Killing Machine: Facing Facts that Could Save Your Life, the life of your kids, your friends, your relatives, pastors, the people in your congregations. Get a copy of this 33-dollar book. It’s 26 dollars on our website, saveus.org. Call us, 1-800-SAVE-USA. Write to us at Save America Ministries, P.O. Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia, 23255. You have a website, Mary?

Mary Holland: childrenshealthdefense.org.

Chuck Crismier: Very good. You're a great representative, Mary, as president of the organization. Thanks for joining us here on Viewpoint today. And friends, become a partner, send your gifts by faith to Save America Ministries. That’s the only way we support this ministry, not by commercial support.

You've been listening to Viewpoint with Chuck Crismier. Viewpoint is supported by the faithful gifts of our listeners. Let me urge you to become a partner with Chuck as a voice to the church declaring vision for the nation. Join us again next time on Viewpoint as we confront the issues of America’s heart and home.