From the MLJ Archive

Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones: I should like to call your attention this evening to the words found in Paul's Epistle to the Romans, in chapter 14, and reading the first four verses. The first four verses in the 14th chapter of Paul's Epistle to the Romans. Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things. Another who is weak eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not, and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth, for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up, for God is able to make him stand. Now, we began our consideration of this new section in the Epistle to the Romans last Friday evening. And I pointed out that here the Apostle, having dealt with our more general relationship to the principalities and powers, and having given us the two grand motives for Christian living in chapter 13, comes here now to a problem again that arises in the realm of the church.

And the problem is, as we saw, the problem of things that are indifferent. Now, it is absolutely essential that we should be clear in our minds as to what that means. He is dealing here with our attitude as Christian believers and as members of the church. Two things which are not definitely prohibited in the New Testament. That's why we call them things indifferent. If a thing is prohibited, well, there's no need to discuss it. There is no argument or disputation. If it's prohibited, it is prohibited. If it is commanded, it is commanded.

But there are things concerning which we haven't got a clear commandment. There is no definite prohibition. So, these are the things that are generally referred to as things indifferent. And there are such things in connection with the Christian life. And as we have seen, though these things are indifferent, they often lead to considerable trouble. They were obviously doing so in the church at Rome. Equally clearly, they were doing so in the church at Corinth, as that chapter which we read just now indicates so clearly.

So that is why the Apostle had to deal with them, and that is why we have got to deal with them also. These things are not essential to salvation. But it is important that we should be right and clear in our thinking with respect to them. Now, we've seen that the Apostle works this out in terms of what he calls those who are weak in faith and those who are strong in faith. He puts it here, he that is weak in the faith, receive ye. In chapter 15, we then that are strong, and he means strong in the faith.

Now, let's carry in our minds also that he's not talking about whether we have a strong or a weak faith. What he's dealing with is the strength of our understanding of the faith, which is a very different thing. It is the faith, not faith. So what he's dealing with is our working out of the implications of our position as Christians and the teaching of the Christian gospel. Now, this is most important. That's why we spent a good deal of our time last Friday night in showing how it ever becomes possible that anybody can be weak in faith.

And we saw that there are many reasons for that. Now, then, the thing we've got to start off with this evening is the realization that there are these differences. Some are strong in their understanding, some are not. And that is where the difficulty comes in. And the Apostle now goes on to show us how we are to handle these matters, which belong, as I say, to the realm of the working out or the application of our salvation in terms of daily, regular life and living. And this is how he deals with it.

Verse 1, as I showed in our general analysis last Friday night. Verse 1 simply lays down the general principle. Then he will come to the particulars in the following verses. And in verse 1, the first thing he tells us is this. We have got to realize that we have a duty towards all our fellow members in the church. The fact that some people may be weaker in the faith than we are, or may be weaker than we think we are, must not lead us to feel that we are independent of them or that we are unconcerned about them.

Or that we can't be bothered with them. That's the very first thing that he obviously tells us here. We've got to do something about them. We can't divorce ourselves from them. Now, I start with this for this reason, that it was quite clear that in the church at Corinth, the church was divided partly in some such way as that. And these brethren who said and who felt that they had got knowledge and were puffed up by their knowledge, they were segregating themselves off into a little kind of select company with this advanced knowledge and understanding, and were not wasting their time with the other people.

Now, that was actually the position in Corinth, and there are hints that it was similar in the church at Colossae and in that whole group of churches around Colossae. And this has certainly been the case many a time since then in the long history of the Christian church. So, we start with this very broad statement. It is always wrong to have factions, groups, divisions in terms of knowledge in the Christian church. And whatever our position is, we must never feel that we are independent of others and unconcerned about them.

That's just the very beginning. But then he puts a very definite negative. Him that is weak in the faith, he says, receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. So we take the negative first. We are not to receive him to doubtful disputations. What's the meaning of this phrase? Well, there's been a great deal of argument about this. So let's look at the words. What's the meaning of the word disputation? The real root meaning of this word translated by the word disputation is this: It's a word which describes a man thinking deliberately with himself about a given question.

It's, in other words, a term that covers a process of inward reasoning or if you like a process of questioning. We all do this, don't we? We reason with ourselves. You remember how Paul puts it in his address before Agrippa and Festus, I verily thought with myself. That's the kind of thing. And we do that. We are up against a problem, and what you do is you have a discussion with yourself. You deliberately do this. And there is this process of inward reasoning and questioning with regard to this matter.

Now, that's the root meaning of disputation. Doubtful, what's the meaning of that? Well, originally it simply means that you have the power of distinguishing. Distinguishing between right and wrong, between good and better, and best and so on. It's a kind of process of discerning or of judging. That's the real meaning of that word. So there are some who say that this verse should be translated like this: Him that is weak in the faith, but receive ye, but not to judgment of thoughts.

Here's this weaker brother with his thoughts. And he's in a bit of a perplexity. Now, you mustn't meet him with the purpose of judging his thoughts or sitting in judgment upon his opinions. Now, this brings us to the very essence of this matter. This weaker brother is in trouble about these things. And here he is, he's got these various points of view, and he's thinking with himself, and he's trying to arrive at a judgment. And as the result of this, his mind is somewhat agitated.

And he's troubled. He's got a fearful spirit. He's anxious to do the right thing and not to do the wrong thing. But he's got doubts and hesitations. And he really is in trouble. Now, that's the picture that we've got here. And what the Apostle is really saying is this, that the stronger brother must never aggravate that condition in which the weaker brother is. Now, I don't think this needs much explanation, does it? We are all familiar with people. Indeed, it may be true of us ourselves.

We're almost perpetually in trouble about these things. Should I do this or shouldn't I? Is this right for me or is it wrong? They have this kind of hypersensitive conscience, this almost morbid conscience, what I described as a kind of morbid scrupulosity. And they are agitated about this, and they really are in trouble. They want to do the right thing and they want to be right, and they want to live as Christians. But here they are in this condition. And what the Apostle is really saying here is this, don't aggravate that condition.

Now, how can this be done? Well, you can aggravate it like this. You can aggravate their troubles and their condition simply by constantly raising this very thing that is agitating them, and arguing with them about it. You know, you're aware of the fact that they've got this trouble. And there's a temptation that comes to you always to be fixing on this and saying, well, now, what about it? Are you still troubled and worried? And perhaps you may do so jokingly. Now, the Apostle says, you mustn't do that.

You mustn't be always hopping on this. If you know it's a problem and a trouble to them, well, don't be always raising it and don't give them the feeling that every time they meet you or come to your meetings, that you'll always be raising this problem, because you're only going to end by making them still more agitated than they were at the beginning. Another way you can make their condition worse is, of course, by ridiculing them. Making fun of being bothered about this. But you see, to them it's a very important and a very serious matter.

And to you it isn't. If you just ridicule them, you're going to increase their troubles, you're going to aggravate the agitation which they are already feeling. And then the third way in which it can be done, and it's something that's done very commonly, and that is that you try to dragoon them or try to foist your opinions upon them. Now, you, you, you, you are clear about this thing. And they are not. And then the temptation is that you just sort of try and force them to see how wrong they are and to bring them to your position.

You claim that you've got liberty, and you feel that they're in bondage. Now, you mustn't, as Paul, you, you, you, you mustn't so deal with them that you're going to increase their problem rather than diminish it. And if you try to bring force and pressure upon them and to foist your clearer light and understanding upon them, you will do them much more harm than good. Now, there is what is meant most essentially by this negative. Not to doubtful disputations. You mustn't sit in judgment on them, and you mustn't foist your opinions upon them.

Now, it's important that we should be clear about this and safeguard this exposition from being misunderstood. Because it doesn't follow from what I have been saying that these matters should never be discussed at all. Obviously, it can't mean that for this reason, that if they are not discussed, these people can never be helped at all. And they must be helped. So, it's not a ban altogether. What the Apostle is really concerned about is the way in which we do try to help them.

That's what he's concerned about. He doesn't clearly prohibit all teaching. He does the exact opposite himself. He does the exact opposite here, as he does it in other places. So, this is not a ban altogether on saying that now because a thing is difficult to some people, you must never mention it and never deal with it. Now, there are people, you know, who adopt that attitude also. There are people who do that not only with regard to matters like this, but with regard to other matters, like prophetic interpretation, or the very doctrine of the church, or of baptism, or something like that.

I've pointed this out before that perhaps this has been one of the weakness of many movements and churches, evangelical movements and churches at this present time, that if they feel that a subject is going to upset anybody, they avoid it altogether. There has been a very serious failure to consider the whole doctrine of the church in interdenominational movements during this present century, for that very reason. And that is surely wrong. That isn't what the Apostle is saying.

What he's concerned about is the way in which we do this. Very well then, there's our negative, not to sit in judgments upon his agitated thoughts and thinking. Well, what are we to do? Well, the positive is, receive him. As I say, not only don't ostracize him, or don't turn your back upon him, and don't be indifferent to him, but positively, he says, you've got to receive him. And the word that the Apostle uses is a word that goes even further than that. It indicates how we should receive him.

It carries the whole notion of giving him a cordial welcome, not a grudging one. Not that you sort of say, well, of course, I've got to put up with this. But it's a nuisance, and it's holding me back, and so on, and it's an annoyance that I have to do this. It's the exact opposite of that. You don't grudgingly welcome him and just put up with him. Receive him. Give him a cordial welcome. And show that you are really and deeply concerned about him. Now, the Apostle puts this. He lifts it up to a level, you see, which makes this thing quite clear.

Did you notice how he puts it in the third verse? Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not, and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth. Why not? For God hath received him. God hath received him. It's the very word that is used here in the first verse. We are to receive this weaker brother in exactly the same way as God has already received him and we have received him, and we have been received by God also. And again, he's so concerned about this that he says it in the seventh verse of the next chapter.

Wherefore, receive ye one another as Christ also received us to the glory of God. Now, that is the way in which we've got to look at and to receive this brother who doesn't agree with us about these particular matters of indifference. We've got to show him the same cordiality, the same love, the same delight in receiving him as the Lord has him and us, and all of us together. So, you see, he lifts it up at once into this marvelous and wonderful realm. Well, now, here is the Apostle's general ruling.

And this first verse is going to cover everything that he's going to argue during the remainder of this chapter, and indeed, as he sums it up at the beginning of the next chapter. But already it seems to me that the Apostle has indicated to us certain principles, certain general principles, which are of the greatest practical importance to all of us at the present time. Now, let me make it clear what I'm going to do. I'm not going to give the Apostle's final answer about these matters which are indifferent.

I can't do that, because he doesn't do it himself until the end of the chapter. He works his way through. I must do the same. But I'm saying that even already, before we come to that, in putting it like this in general in the first verse, he has shown us certain principles which I think you will agree with me are of the greatest possible importance for us in our conduct towards one another in the realm of the church. Now, I want to emphasize that.

We are dealing with it in the realm of the church primarily. I say that because, of course, we are in a world in which we not only are involved in the church, but we all know, and perhaps involved in, and supporting, or perhaps as members of, or active workers in, certain interdenominational activities. Missionary societies, Christian unions, whether in business or a profession or among students or whatever it is. Now, I am not at the moment dealing with what may be done in societies.

I am dealing only with what is said here by the Apostle in terms of our behavior in these matters in the realm of the church. And this, it seems to me, is the kind of principle which he lays down here, or at any rate, are the principles as I see them. First, these indifferent matters are not central, and they do not determine whether we are Christian or not. Now, that's a most important principle. Because, you see, there are some people who would make these things central, and they would make them essential to our salvation.

And there are people who judge whether we are Christian or not by what we do with regard to these indifferent matters. Now, I gave you some horrid examples of this at the end last Friday night. But I've known many Christian people who wouldn't hesitate to say that if they see a man smoking, that he's not a Christian. Or if they seem doing something else, they elevate these matters of indifference to a central, essential position. Now, the Apostle is clearly already telling us that that is not the case.

We are to receive these people. So that means, well, whatever their views, and remember, he deals not only with the weak, but also with the strong. And he not only deals with the attitude of the strong towards the weak, but equally he deals with the attitude of the weak towards the strong. He deals with both sides, and this applies to all sides. These matters, whatever else may be true about them, are not central, and they do not determine whether we are Christians or not.

Secondly, these matters, therefore, are not the grounds on which we admit to church membership either. I have to say this because there are religious denominations, mainly in the United States of America, tending to come to this country, that definitely make these things conditions of church membership. But my argument is that the Apostle, in the first verse, has told us that that is patently wrong. Whatever the point of view, he says about these things, receive one another.

Regard one another as children together in the church of God. These are not the conditions on which we are admitted to church membership. The third point he therefore obviously suggests is that we must all always remember that at our best we are still imperfect. As is thought elsewhere, we all err in some respect. Every one of us. And I think I indicated again at the end last Friday night how amazing it is how people are ready to condemn certain things which they see in others, and are quite blind to things in themselves which those others condemn in them.

So, we must always remember that we are all of us at best imperfect. These, you see, are general points which obviously are going to govern the whole of the detailed working out of this great argument. So, let me go on to a fourth point. Our knowledge of the faith is never complete. Now, I have to put it like that because the danger with the strong brother always is to think that he has encompassed all knowledge, that there is nothing further for him to learn.

So, we've all got to remember that our understanding of the faith is never complete. It is never perfect. Now, this is something that really is of very vital importance. You remember how the Apostle in writing in the fourth chapter of the Epistle to the Ephesians puts it like this, and this is very relevant to what we are now doing. He talks about the ascended Christ having led captivity captive and gave gifts to men. Gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers. What for? Well, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, and to a perfect man, and to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Now, you see what that means. We have not all yet come into this unity of the faith. Obviously, he's not dealing there with saving faith. Because we have already come to the knowledge of saving faith. That is why we must hold on to this idea that the faith here does not mean saving or justifying faith. It means the application of the whole truth of salvation to particular details, the outworking of it. So there he indicates very clearly that this is something which is to go to go on and to increase and to develop, until a great day will come when all Christians will see exactly the same with regard to all these questions.

We haven't arrived at that yet. You see, there are differences of opinion not only on these matters which are indifferent. There are differences of opinion, as I was indicating, upon matters of prophecy, matters of baptism, and so on. And if we make any one of those vital to salvation or to church membership, we are violating the Apostle's principle. We mustn't do that. There will be a day when we'll all see these things absolutely clearly. It hasn't arrived obviously. But we are pressing on in this respect.

Or take another statement of it which is perhaps still clearer. The Second Epistle of Peter, in the first chapter and beginning at the first verse. Having reminded them, these men and these people that God has already provided for us all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue, he goes on to say this, beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge. Now, this is the very thing with which we are dealing.

You see, you've already got the faith. You can't be a Christian without it. You've got justifying, saving faith. You have seen the way of salvation. You have believed it. You have committed yourself to it. You've got knowledge there. But says Paul, add to your faith. And what you've got to add to your faith amongst other things is knowledge. And you've got to give diligence to add knowledge to your faith. Now, you see, I emphasize this in order to show you this.

That if we imagine that we all of us are in exactly the same position with regard to our knowledge of the faith, well, it means that there is something radically wrong with our knowledge of the faith. The scripture teaches us that there are people at different levels in their attainment of knowledge with regard to this faith. Some have a little, some have added more, some have added more. You go on with all diligence adding to your faith this knowledge. And this is something, of course, that explains why we've got these New Testament epistles.

That's what they're for. We meet here together on Friday nights to add knowledge to the faith that we've already got, and the faith that we understand. But we our understanding is incomplete. So we've all got to come now, being ready to learn and to go on. The weak brother and the strong brother. The Apostle is laying this down as a general principle covering the entire matter of how we are to handle and to regard these matters that are indifferent. Now, this is a very important point, isn't it?

None of us have arrived. None of us have got perfect or complete knowledge. We must all go on adding to our knowledge and giving great diligence to do so. So then I come to the fifth principle which really covers them all, which is this. We must remember that we are members of the same family, the family of God, and we are to help one another as members of the family. What would you think of the members of a family in which there may happen to be a child that is not quite as developed as the remainder of the family?

What would you think of the members of a family fully developed who despised or ignored or neglected this slightly defective child, which is as much a child of the family as they are? No, no, says the Apostle. You've got to realize that you're all one, you've all been received by the same Christ of the same God, and you've got to love one another, and your greatest concern of all should be to help one another. Now, that's the great principle that he is laying down. And that leads to the next matter that I want to discuss with you.

There are those who would say that all the Apostle is saying in the first verse is this, that the strong brother must never sit in judgment on the scruples of the weaker brother, and that he's saying no more. I don't agree with that. He is saying that, that as he goes on to show very clearly. The Apostle is not only dealing with the strong brother, he's also dealing with the weaker brother, and he's got things to say to the weak brother exactly as he says to the strong brother. I take the view that the Apostle here is instructing the strong and the weak, for they both fall into error at this point, as he will show us over this matter of meats.

So that I am here to defend the translation of our authorized translators. Him that is weak in the faith, receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. It isn't only not express judgment upon the weak brother's scruples. He really is concerned about the whole question of the discussion of these matters. That was clearly the view taken by the authorized translators, and I am here to assert that this is involved as is the other thing as well. I don't stop at the other.

I accept the other, I start with it. But I say that also, he does really raise here in principle this whole question of the place of discussions in the Christian life, and especially the discussion of these matters that are indifferent. Now then, what are the rules about discussions amongst Christians in the life of the church? I'm going to give you what I understand to be the general teaching of the whole of the New Testament on this matter, summarized, as I feel, in this one big injunction of the Apostle.

Receive them, receive them with cordiality, receive them as brethren, receive them with grace, but not to doubtful disputations. So, I would indicate that there are certain rules that we must always bear in mind with regard to the discussions of any subject, any question in the realm of the church. And here are the rules. One, never have a discussion for the sake of a discussion. Now, the world does that, doesn't it? The world enjoys having a debate, has its debating societies, for the sake of having a debate.

This must never be done in the realm of the church. We are not in the world. We are out of the world. And to have a discussion merely for its own sake or the sake of a discussion is something that seems to me to be entirely foreign to the whole of the New Testament attitude. Secondly, it follows obviously. You must never have a discussion for the sake of entertainment or for the sake of pleasure. You may say these injunctions are unnecessary. I can assure you they're not.

And as one who in the past has been very guilty in this very matter, I find this second injunction of mine to be most important. You know, there are some people to whom there is no greater form of entertainment than to be having a discussion about religion. It is one of the most interesting, fascinating things that a man can ever do or ever be engaged in. There have been famous disputations in the past history of the church, and they have often been nothing but entertainment. And we must always be very careful that we exclude this.

We never enter into a discussion about anything in connection with the Christian life merely for entertainment or for pleasure. Third, never enter into a discussion for the sake of display of yourself. You know, there are some people who are fond of hearing their own voices, aren't they? You mustn't in the realm of the church. People like to talk. Some people are always itching to speak and to voice their opinions, because they like to hear their own voices. It's quite foreign to the whole atmosphere of the New Testament.

Or to display their knowledge, or to display their cleverness, or to display their opinions, or their skill in argument and in disputation. Don't forget what I was indicating last Friday evening. Though you're born again, you've still got your old temperament in you. There is something every one of us has got to watch, and every one of us has got to fight in particular. What I'm saying tonight doesn't apply to some of you at all. As natural men and women, you've hated discussions always.

You never had an argument even about politics with anybody. You walk out when a discussion starts. All right. But you see, you've got something special that troubles you. I'm dealing now with this whole question of discussion. And though we are born again, unless we are very careful, the moment we begin to discuss these things, the old man begins to assert itself. And this is one of the ways in which he does it. So, I put it like that. Never for display of self. My fourth injunction. Never discuss these matters in a bad temper or an uncontrolled manner.

Now, this is most important. I've seen people lose their tempers over a discussion of religious questions, Christian questions, matters such as this. Always got a picture in my mind of this. Brought up as I was in Wales, where everybody went to Sunday school. Not only the children, everybody went to Sunday school. I belonged to a Sunday school in which there was a class for men of 70, and another for women of 70. Everybody went to Sunday school. And at the end of the Sunday school every Sunday, there was a general kind of catechizing meeting.

All the classes came together, and one man was appointed to put questions, and he would submit an opinion. Then he'd say, everybody agree with this. Somebody else would give another. I always remember the picture of a Sunday school ending on one occasion with three men on their feet speaking together at the same time, each of them having lost his temper. That's the sort of thing I'm saying should never happen. Because for this reason, the moment you've lost your temper in a discussion, well, the important thing for you is not the Christian issue any longer.

It's the fact that you've lost your temper. Whatever the right or the wrong of this matter may be, you are patently in the wrong because you can't control yourself. And a Christian who can't control himself should not give his opinion on anything. The first thing he's got to learn, or she's got to learn, is self-control. And then, and then only, are you entitled to go on to discuss these questions. So, there must never be bad temper. Now, this needs to be said in the church, doesn't it?

You remember what Spurgeon used to say. He used to warn the students. He kept on saying it. He'd say, now, you'll find this when you go out into churches. He said, you will find that there are people in your churches who in a prayer meeting pray like angels. But the moment you go to a church meeting and discuss the affairs of the church, you'll find the same people suddenly become devils. It's very true, isn't it? Think of the quarrels in churches which have done such harm to the Christian cause.

It's all because they've never known and never learned truly how to discuss these matters together. Very well, let me take up a point like this. We must learn, I say, in the fifth place, always to draw a distinction between a discussion and an argument. Now, I'm saying that discussions are essential. They're a good way of teaching, as long as we are careful in these respects. What's the difference between a discussion and an argument? Well, there is a word which has been used very much at the present time.

I confess I don't like it because I think it tends to confuse issues. It's this word dialogue. It's the favorite word of the ecumenical people at the present time. And what they mean by dialogue is this. They say, you mustn't have the old wranglings we used to have. But you must come and exchange opinions, and try to see the other man's point of view. Well, now, that's all right. That is exactly what I think the Apostle is saying here is the thing we should practice. But where our friends of the ecumenical movement, of course, go so wrong is this.

That they do that with Roman Catholics, for instance. Or they will do that with people who deny the very elements of the Christian faith. To which my reply is this. You must not, and you cannot have a dialogue with people who either deny the faith altogether or so add to it that they deny it. You don't have a dialogue with them. A dialogue means, as we have here, that there is something in common, that you're all Christians together. But you mustn't regard as a Christian a man who denies the very elements of the Christian faith.

Or a man who says that you must go through the Virgin Mary or the saints, or that you are saved by baptism or something like that. Now, there is no basis there. A discussion, a dialogue presumes a common basis, a common foundation. And what the Apostle is saying is this. As you have all been received together by the Lord, as you are all Christians and fellow members and of the same family, well, now then, on that basis, look at these questions in this kind of way. This is the difference then between a discussion and an argument.

And the essential difference is this. If you're in an argument, of course, you're generally just out to win and to prove that you are right. And that's why argumentation is generally bad. It's not much use anywhere, but it's very bad in the realm of the Christian church. You mustn't be concerned simply to win an argument or to prove that you are right. You mustn't be concerned solely to defend your own position and to beat others or to beat them down. Why not? Well, because that always has the effect of antagonizing the other.

That's the trouble with an argument. You are no surer of your position at the end, but so is the other person. You've hardened his position, you have antagonized him, and you've probably made him more obstinate. He sees that you are trying to put him down, and that makes him determined to defend his position at all costs. And so, any agreement is already ruled out. The spirit on both sides is wrong. And an argument always does more harm than good. So, let's be clear about the difference between a discussion and an argument.

So, I would put my sixth rule in this form. The desire always of all of us should be to know the truth better and to help one another. Now, those of you who read Robert Hall in his commentary in the Epistle to the Romans, will notice that he virtually says that this discussion never does any good at all, and that nobody has ever been persuaded by a discussion. I think he goes much too far. I am asserting that there is a real place for discussion on condition that we observe these rules.

On condition that the discussion is handled carefully. On condition that it is carried on in a spiritual and in a Christian manner. I think that this method of discussion, the so-called Socratic method, has justified itself throughout the centuries. But of course, it has its dangers. Everything has its dangers. Preaching has its dangers. Teaching has its dangers. And discussions have their dangers. And if they a discussion cannot be carried out properly, or if it tends to degenerate always into an argument, don't do it at all.

But I think it is going much too far to rule it out altogether and to say that a discussion is never of any value. Well, what, how do we handle a discussion? The conclusion I come to is this one. That what the Apostle is really telling us here is this, that we've got to learn the art of teaching, all of us. We are to teach one another. We are to help one another. And the first thing he says you've got to do is to learn what is the essence of the art of teaching.

And oh, how we all need this. I sometimes think that this is the thing that is needed above everything else by young pastors. I've seen excellent young men get into trouble in churches so often because they've never understood this point. Their motives have been excellent, and what they wanted to do was right. But their way of doing it has been so wrong and has so forgotten all that the Apostle teaches here, that instead of teaching their people, they've divided their churches and sometimes have even had to leave their churches.

Now, but this isn't only confined to pastors. I've often come up against this problem in this way. Some of you tonight, who are listening to me, may have been involved in this very thing. I've often met this problem in the case of young Christian people getting married, and especially those who have been converted out of an irreligious or perhaps even a godless family. Now, the problem has often arisen in this way. They come to me, and the arrangements are being made for the wedding and for the reception afterwards.

And they're in trouble. And the trouble is this. The bride says, well, my people are not Christians. And they're very anxious to have wine or something at the wedding reception. And the young couple have decided that they're not going to do this, that this is absolutely wrong, that they're Christians. They can't have this. And they're determined to stand on this and to bear their witness. Their motives are excellent. Whether I shock you or not, I don't know, but I have always told them that they mustn't do that.

And that they mustn't do that for several reasons. One is that it isn't their reception. It is the reception given by the parents of the bride. Secondly, that if they really do want to influence these unbelieving parents to Christianity, well, then they must not behave as they are proposing to do. It's not their responsibility. They are not doing anything wrong, and they will certainly end by giving a completely false impression of the Christian faith to these unbelieving parents and the unbelieving guests who are going to attend.

Now, then, very well, bear that in your mind. The position of the young pastor is often this. He's called to a church where they may have had bazaars or something. And he doesn't believe in bazaars. And he takes a stand on this. Or if not only bazaars, but various other things that unfortunately happen in churches at the present time. Now, then, what is the rule? What is the essence of the art of teaching? Well, I think it's something like this. One, it is the business of the teacher always to realize the position of those who are being taught.

The first thing a teacher has got to do is to make an assessment of the people he's teaching, whether it be children, or whether it be adults, it doesn't matter. The good teacher doesn't just come out of his study with his lesson all prepared and underlined and double-underlined and just give it them. If he, if he does, he's not fit to teach. The first thing the teacher's got to do is to understand those whom he's going to teach, and to learn how to assess them. Secondly, he must learn not to expect too much from children and babes.

You see, if you expect too much from a child, you can be very cruel to that child. What do you think of the sort of teacher who canes a child because it can't follow something that's been said? You'd agree, he's not fit to teach. But you know, many people do this with adults. They're babes in Christ. They're weak in the faith. They don't understand. And yet these impatient teachers, they dragoon them, they slash them, they denounce them, and they antagonize them. Why? Well, because they've never taken the trouble to realize the position of these people.

Now, I could give you personal stories about this. The first church of which I was the minister was the kind of church I'm describing. And the first thing I saw was that these people were ignorant. I mean, ignorant, spiritual of these matters. They'd never been taught about this. Not at all. It wasn't so much that they were deliberately wrong, as that they'd never really been made to face them. Very well. If you start with a child, remember that he's a child. If you start with a child in the faith, remember that he's a child.

Don't expect full understanding from children. If you do, you're a thoroughly bad teacher. And don't be cruel, therefore, to people. Don't expect from them what they've never been in a position to be or to have. So, the third great thing is the need of patience. The teacher must always be very patient. You must be ready to answer questions. You must be ready to repeat yourself. You must be ready to face difficulties. Of course, you'll find this as a teacher, that some of the clever people feel you're wasting time.

They know that already. Fancy going over that again, they say. You've got to ignore them, or not only ignore them, you know how to deal with them, too. You can do something with them in passing now and again, and just show them their conceit, and that they don't always know quite as much as they can. But they'll be most impatient with you. Take no notice. You be patient. Be patient with the people who are struggling along, with the children in the faith. Deal with their questions. Answer them patiently.

Be prepared to demonstrate to them out of the scriptures. What the teacher must never do is just to stand up and say, I say. I am saying. No, no. You've got to demonstrate it. You've got to show it. You've got to take your scriptures. You've got to consider the possibilities, and you've got to work it out. And it needs great patience. There is no quality in a teacher that is needed more than this, the quality of patience. And then fourth, never forget or depreciate the value of example.

Holden rightly emphasizes this. You see what you and I must do is this. Now, here is a man who's in genuine difficulty about something. Very well, we think he's wrong. We think we are right. Show that to him. Show it in your life. Show it by your example. Show him a better way. Now, this is where it's often come in with young pastors. They start by laying down this law. Now, I've always said to such a thing I had to learn for myself. Remembering that these people don't know any better.

Don't sort of lay down the law too much, but reason with them. Say, now, look here. Are you prepared to try another way? Are you prepared to give another way an opportunity? And they'll generally be led by you. You, you can reason with them, and you show that you're a reasonable person, and that you're patient. And just say, well, let's try another way. Let me, let me, let me show it to you. You give your reasons, you give your explanations, and they're generally amazed. They never thought of this, and they're prepared to give it a trial.

And you show, in trial, so often have I known this happen where a young minister has had to do this over a question like a bazaar, and he said, now, let's try just for once. Let us ask the people to come and bring their gifts. And the people have accepted it, and they've had perhaps twice or three times what they'd ever had out of their wretched bazaars. But that's the way to do it. Not to stand as it were on your hind legs and just lay down the law, and and denounce. No, no. You've got to show people.

You don't make people do things without understanding why they're doing them. You must give them the reasons, and you must lead them by your example and by your instruction. So, above all, and with this I close. The essence of teaching is that you show and manifest a loving interest in those whom you're teaching. Once they get the impression that what you are really concerned about is to help them, not to denounce them, not to despise them. The moment they feel that you love them, that you're concerned about them, that you want to help them, that'll do infinitely more than all your demonstrations and arguments.

I'm not ruling out the arguments and demonstrations. I say they're essential. But if they're not done in this spirit of a loving concern, it's useless. But you now once these people feel that you have got this loving concern, they will listen to you. And then you will be able to help them. And together you will be able to arrive at a common opinion with regard to these matters that are indifferent and many other matters. Very well, there it is as I see it. And the Apostle here, remember, is dealing only with conduct in the realm of the church.

As members together, those who have been received by the same Christ of the same God, we are to receive one another in this same way and help one another. And now we are in a position to go on to consider his detailed application of this general, overarching, covering principle, which deals not only with these matters, but any matter that we may have to discuss in the realm of the Christian church. Let us pray. Oh Lord, our God, we come to thee again and we do thank thee for thy word.

Oh Lord, we realize how lost and bereft we would be without it. We see our proneness to wander astray and to think and do that which is wrong. We humbly thank thee for all that thou hast provided for us. Oh God, grant, we pray thee to deal with us above all, shed thy love abroad in our hearts by thy Holy Spirit. And give us a burning love for one another, and a desire to help and to build up one another in this our most holy faith. Use us, oh God, all of us more and more to that great and glorious end.

And now, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship and the communion of the Holy Spirit, abide and continue with us, now, throughout the remainder of this our short and uncertain earthly life and pilgrimage, and evermore. Amen.