Focus on the Family

J.John: You've got to make sure Jesus is part of your marriage. Within the dialogue at the wedding in Cana, I love it where Mary says, "Do whatever He tells you."

John Fuller: Well, that's British evangelist J.John with an insightful message for how you can strengthen your marriage. We're so glad you've joined us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly: J.John always brings such great stories. It was extra special to have his wife, Killy, join us for this show. We're so glad they made the long journey across the pond from London to be with us in studio to talk about their 42 years of marriage, which we all celebrate.

We love marriage here at Focus on the Family. We're actually accused of making an idol out of marriage. To that we say, of course not. We want you to thrive in Christ in your marriage relationship, and that's why we're here. In 2025 alone, Focus on the Family helped strengthen almost half a million marriages. I'm so grateful for that.

Those are couples in all stages. Whether your marriage is in crisis, your marriage needs a little tune-up, or you're just looking for ways to love your spouse better, we have resources that will fit that entire spectrum. From our Hope Restored marriage intensives, our amazing team of Christian counselors, and our Focus on the Family broadcast app, we have something for your family. I think you're really going to enjoy this show.

John Fuller: I would agree. J.John has been here before, always well-received by our audience. He has an evangelist's heart. He's brought the good news of Jesus Christ to 70 countries and has written over 50 books, over a million copies in print in 13 languages. You're really in for a treat because, Jim, Killy really brought out this wonderful heart for this guy that we've known. We've got more details about J.John and all the evangelistic work he does, as well as the Focus on the Family resources Jim mentioned, on our website. With that, Jim, here's how you began today's program with J.John and his wife, Killy.

Jim Daly: J.John and Killy, welcome to Focus on the Family. It's great to have you.

J.John: Jim, thank you for having us. John, wonderful to be here with you.

Killy: So fun. Thanks for having us.

Jim Daly: It is wonderful. We've aired you on Focus on the Family many times, and the listeners love you. I can just say it that way. You're always at the top of the responses that people provide Focus, and they just love you. Of course, part of it's your accent, right?

J.John: Thank you, Jim. It reminds me of when Jesus rode on a donkey into Jerusalem. The donkey thought it was all about him. He was so excited. He thought to himself, "Why was I locked up all these years? The people love me! They adore me! They don't even want me to get my feet dirty, so they're laying down their clothes." But we all know what happened to the donkey when the donkey got to Jerusalem.

Jim Daly: That is hilarious.

J.John: You never ever heard of him again. That was the end of him. We just carry Jesus, don't we, Jim?

Jim Daly: That's so good. You guys are here and we're talking about marriage. Killy, it's so good to have you because you're not always out there publicly, right?

Killy: That's right. Often you use the analogy—sorry, I'm looking at my husband—you use the analogy that there's a surprised woman behind a successful man.

Jim Daly: I like that—a surprised woman. Jean can feel your pain. You've been married 42 years.

J.John: We have. We've got the silver medal, but we're going for gold.

Jim Daly: That's good. It's all been wonderful, right?

J.John: Forty-one happy years out of 42. I think that first year was tough. When at Christmastime you bring a Christmas tree into your home, you have to rearrange the furniture. But when you bring another person into your life, you've got to rearrange a lot more. It does take time and it takes adjustment to do that. Killy, you threw the salad spoons at me.

Killy: Well, yes, that's not my finest hour.

Jim Daly: We're just putting all the bad stuff out there right at the front. Did you—I guess the question is, did you strike gold? Did you hit him?

Killy: No. Fortunately. I mean, that would be terrible if I did.

Jim Daly: So you're not a good thrower of spoons.

Killy: No.

Jim Daly: Let me start a little back at when you met. I understand a key part of your courtship was, in part, you giving your life to Christ. Describe that because that is so powerful.

Killy: Thank you. Yes. So I was brought up in a Christian family, but by the time I hit 17, I had put Jesus on hold. It just didn't seem relevant at that time in my life.

Roll on, I started at college. I was doing hotel management. My father was a pastor, actually. In the vacation, he said to me, "Why don't you open up a coffee shop in the church hall?" which was right in the center of Cambridge, which is a very busy university town. The one thing he didn't mention was I would have to share the hall with the international student outreach that goes on in Cambridge where the churches get together to reach out to all the overseas students who are coming to learn English.

Jim Daly: So your dad had a little bit of a scheme there, maybe.

Killy: I think he maybe did. He's never confessed it. I had to hand the keys over to this international outreach to the leader of the first two weeks of the team.

The first thing I couldn't believe was students my age giving up their summer vacation to tell people about Jesus. I was like, "Why would you even do that?" So we got chatting with the team leader. One thing led to another. He kept saying, "You must come to one of the meetings that we're holding." "No, no, far too busy. No, no, no, no, no."

I sat down one evening and I just said to my mom, "I'm going." I went to this meeting. It was one of those things. It's the early '80s where you had drama and you had singing and it all was speaking to me. It was like my life being laid in front of me. I was the first person to respond. So I was followed up by my now-husband.

Jim Daly: Now, that's an important part of the story. You called it pastoral encouragement follow-up. Was it as pure as it sounds, or did you have a little scheme going?

J.John: When I first met Killy, I realized she came from generations of missionaries and evangelists. I realized that she was sitting on the fence. Sitting on the fence is a very uncomfortable place to be. If you're sitting on a fence, you've got to electrocute the fence.

Jim Daly: Killy, let me ask you this question because so many people listening might have kids in that zone—19, 20, maybe somewhere in their 20s. They're on the fence. They're living where you were living. What encouragement would you give to the Christian parents to say, "Hold fast, don't give up hope, do this or that?" What kind of advice would you give them for their wayward child?

Killy: I would definitely say prayer. Prayer, I think, is the key. There's that beautiful verse, "Trust in the Lord, don't lean on your own understanding." For our kids, it's so easy to lean on the circumstances that we see them in at this moment. Don't do that. Trust God.

I love that story of the Emmaus Road where those two on the road are walking what appears to be away from Jerusalem. They should be in Jerusalem waiting and everything, but they are walking away, but Jesus walks with them. Sometimes we have to remember that although our children appear to be walking away, Jesus is often closer to them than we realize.

Jim Daly: It's such a good thing to remember and not to lose hope and not to express that loss of hope to those kids.

J.John: Absolutely, Jim. Don't try and argue with them or anything. That doesn't get anywhere. I'm reminded of that story of this mother who raised her son as a believer. He was super bright. He went to university as a teenager and rejected his mother's Christian faith. He got involved in all sorts of philosophies and alternative lifestyles.

His mother just prayed, prayed, prayed. But she didn't know that he was very intrigued by this street preacher. Interestingly, if you walk past a street preacher, you kind of think, "Oh, dear, what are they doing?" but he was intrigued by this street preacher and wanted to go and hear him as often as he could.

The mother just prayed. Anyway, nine years later, he has an epiphany and he's totally transformed. The mother's name is Monica, and her son's name is Saint Augustine.

Jim Daly: Way to put that story together. That's beautiful. One of the prolific thinkers and writers in Christian history. Jay, let me ask you—you grew up Greek. Of course, I saw the film *My Big Fat Greek Wedding*. I think it was called. Is it true, the Windex thing about spraying Windex on an injury?

J.John: Jim, when that movie came out, it was very popular. Friends of mine said, "Oh, J.John, is that what Greek culture is like?" and I said, "No, it's worse."

Culture, I'm sure many of your listeners will agree, can be very restricting and can be very suffocating. My mother is a travel agent for guilt trips. I only have to call my mother, and within a minute or two, she's making me feel guilty about something.

Jim Daly: But you've managed that so well. How did that shape your view of marriage? You're a young man, you're living in this Greek family, and they have a particular idea of marriage and how marriages come together. In that context, the in-law battles can be tough. It sounds like you're describing a bit of that.

J.John: Oh, they were tough. When I introduced Killy to my parents, it was awful, wasn't it, Killy?

Killy: It was. It was brutal, actually. But God's grace, I think, protected us from not becoming bitter. So they didn't come to the wedding.

J.John: Because Killy's English and they wanted me to marry a Greek, a Cypriot.

Jim Daly: And it meant that much to them that they wouldn't even come to the wedding. That had to be crushing for you.

Killy: It is. When I think back, I really do believe in God's grace. Because over the years, the relationship has improved. So for those who go through this who are listening, don't give up hope. That verse from Romans—

J.John: Yes, God spoke to us through this verse in Romans where it says, "As much as it lies within you, keep the peace." We felt the Lord said to us, "Don't judge them for the way they're reacting to you. As much as it lies within you, keep the peace."

So we're like, "Okay, we've got to keep the peace. Let's honor them as best as we can." I think the Lord has sustained us.

Jim Daly: I think we have a good basis for the families you're coming from. Let's turn into the marriage side of this. You do talk humorously about being married 42 years and 41 of them being so happy. Let's of course go to that one year you weren't doing so well.

It's this idea in the early part of marriage, a lot of traps can be set because you are trying to rearrange the furniture for Christmas and somebody new coming into your life, and it does change people. I think let's start with the spiritual concept of all this. Why did God do it this way? Why does He bring two different people together who think they have very little difference until they start brushing their teeth together in the morning and making meals together and you find out, "Oh, my gosh, she is not like me at all." So, the "why" question—why did God do this?

J.John: Well, it helps produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit. It refines you. It's like sandpaper, just kind of refining you, and it really does. In marriage, you learn to exercise peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control.

Jim Daly: It's kind of where you learn it, in my opinion. It's in marriage if you're willing.

J.John: I think so. You actually have to be willing. We are still learning. I think we can all testify to that.

Couples who are going to get married often say to Killy and me, "What advice would you give us?" and we've come up with four words, Jim. The first word is respect. I need to respect Killy, Killy needs to respect me. However, I need to be the kind of person that warrants Killy respecting me. What do I need to do? What does Killy need to do?

The second word we use is responsibility. Many couples on their wedding day, they say "I do" and then they don't. In marriage, on the wedding day, the minister will say, "Today we witness two becoming one," and then the day after the honeymoon we discover which one. But you've got to take responsibility, don't we, Killy?

Killy: It's so true. I think every couple would say this. They've got their responsibilities within the house and outside of the house and things like that. But then there's also the responsibility you have together, that you work through things together as well. You can't just leave it all to one person. That's the important thing.

Jim Daly: To grab the listeners, pull us into those maybe not-so-comfortable early years because everybody's going to attach to that. Most people are going to say, "Yep, that's what we did, too." What were some of those things dividing you? Describe in your situation what was happening that made it not so happy.

J.John: Well, I think one of us is tidy and one of us wasn't tidy. One of us found that very frustrating and irritating. Isn't that interesting? Because in some ways, that's a minor thing, but the minor thing became a major thing, and it kind of escalated.

Killy: And actually as well, I think you were traveling quite a lot as well. I think you can both be really tired and then you decide to have a deep discussion and it's just not worth it.

Jim Daly: I really don't like those, just for the record. It seems like that's what married couples are supposed to do is have deep conversations.

Killy: Deep conversations when they're both absolutely shattered—do not do it. You'd be away and I'd be like, "Right, we need to talk about this." It's like, "Actually, hang on. Let's have a nice, good night's sleep and have a cup of coffee somewhere the next day or something."

Jim Daly: Killy, that's really important because you're describing a bitterness, a root of resentment that begins to spin in you. This can be the husband or the wife, but there's something going on. Now you're not feeling treated fairly. You feel ignored. You feel like you're not being heard. I know I'm hitting all the hot buttons through experience.

Killy: That's a great way of describing it. You know, I had an older woman who was in my life—a wonderful lady. She came along to me one day and she actually said to me—and I didn't think I was particularly like this—but she said to me, fairly early on, I think we had young children, but fairly early on in our marriage, "Self-pity is a sin."

I remember being like, "I don't think I dwell in self-pity." But you know that bitterness, that root that starts to take place, actually is so dangerous in marriage.

Jim Daly: It's like a weed.

Killy: Yes. And you're not always aware of it, but it's there just building, building, getting tangled up. Then something else comes along and it's like, "Oh, let's put that in there as well." So, yes, so actually that was my wake-up call when she said that. That was when I thought, "No, you have to push into the Lord. You have to keep going."

Jim Daly: In those regards, though, to me it always feels like a "why" in the road emotionally for that person, whether it's the husband or the wife. You have to make a choice. You have to decide—A, you have to be aware that this is in me, so that's knowing your heart. B, am I going to choose to go down this bad path, or am I going to find a way to go down a good path? That navigation is so critical.

I think a lot of wives, let's put it in that position—you're the wife—how do you arrest the weed? How do you pull the weed and move in the better direction with your husband who's demonstrating all this behavior that is really making you angry, and then do it with sincerity and with a Christlike heart?

Killy: Looking back, hindsight's a great thing, isn't it? But it took me a long time, actually, if I'm really honest. But it is our identity in Christ, actually, that I think is the root. Once we've grasped that we are His child, He loves us, He adores us, He died for us. Once we've really got that and understood it and the whole transforming of the mind, you can relate so much better, whether it's to your husband or any relationship, really. But knowing who you are—so you're totally secure in who you are—and out of that dealing with the conflict.

J.John: And sensitivity, Jim, I think is very important. I remember I came back from being on a mission, and lots of people had come to Christ. Even though I was exhausted, I was exhilarated.

So I come back and I'm telling Killy all of this, and I remember Killy going, "Well, shall I tell you what my life was like while you were away? I had three screaming children in the car driving to church, and I was shouting at them in the car, 'Stop doing that! Stop hitting each other!' and then getting three children out and saying, 'Hello! God bless you! God bless you!'" She said, "That's my world."

It was a wake-up call for me, really. Not that it was inappropriate for me to share what had happened, but to be more sensitive of what was life like for Killy while I was away.

Jim Daly: This is practical stuff for marriage. Men, I'm telling all the women listening, men need to hear somebody say, "This is how you do that." We don't intuitively figure it out. How did you do that? What did you say? How did she feel heard and seen?

J.John: Again, I like the word intentionality, Jim. I really, even though I came back from missions exhausted, I really tried to be there, to be attentive, and to step up with all the chores that needed doing in the house.

"How can I help Killy? What can I do? How can I help with the kids? How can I just ease the burden and the stress on her?" I really had to work hard at it because I felt so exhausted, and that was one thing I would do. Also, we were very good at carving out time. "Okay, let's have tomorrow morning off. Let's just go for a walk. Let's just go and have a coffee." We were quite good at that, weren't we?

Killy: We were. Actually, holidays became a lot more important as well. I used to call it regrouping. So you have to take time to work at things and not just prioritize ministry or work. You often say that thing about the Lord of the work—

J.John: Yes, sometimes—I mean, look, we're all in ministry, but then there's ministry ministry—but I think those of us in ministry ministry, sometimes the work of the Lord becomes more important than the Lord of the work. You can have so many irons in the fire that you've actually put the fire out, and you need to stoke up the fire.

Those are good, good premises. We wrap our day and our everything that we do from the morning in prayer to the evening in prayer. The first thing we do when we wake up—we're in bed, we wake up, we have a cuddle. That means a hug. We have a hug and then we pray the Lord's Prayer. That's the first thing we do. Then we pray for the family, we pray for the day, and we pray for those who are sick. We end our night with prayer.

Jim Daly: Well, that's good advice, and I think that's something everybody could apply who believes in Jesus because you will see the fruit of the spirit in your life if you're doing those things. I want to come back next time and continue the discussion and talk about these things that we can do in marriage that really predicts a great outcome, a happy marriage for a long time. Some people are going, "I can't even imagine that," but actually you can. 'Til death do us part. Amen. So we'll pick up next time if you're willing to stick it out with us here and we'll continue the discussion. Thanks for being with us.

J.John: Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, John.

Jim Daly: J.John and Killy are a remarkable couple and such great guests. I love hearing their love for the Lord and for marriage and their great stories. For everyone listening, Focus on the Family is here to help you thrive in your marriage, and we have amazing resources available to you like our team of Christian counselors, our Hope Restored marriage intensives, and so much more.

If you need encouragement today, don't hesitate. Give us a call or stop by the website. Or if you'd like to listen to this great content on the go, download the Focus on the Family broadcast app. You'll get access to all the library of articles, broadcasts, and resources, and that's 24/7 encouragement for your marriage, parenting, and your walk with the Lord.

And for a gift of any amount to the ministry, we want to make J.John and Killy's great devotional, *Marriage Works: A 40-Day Devotional to Strengthen Your Relationship*, available to you. Your donations allow Focus on the Family to minister to literally thousands of families like Teresa's every day. So donate, get your copy, and let's do ministry together.

John Fuller: We're a phone call away: 800-A-FAMILY. Or donate and get this terrific little devotional and learn about other resources that Jim mentioned at focusonthefamily.com/weekend. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.

You're listening to Focus on the Family's Weekend Broadcast. We'll take a quick break and then return with the second half of this program for your family. Stay tuned.

Guest (Male): ChatGPT and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or offer biblical wisdom. Real connection is what brings true hope. Focus on the Family offers a free confidential consultation with a Christian counselor to guide you and help you find hope with whatever you're facing. Go to focusonthefamily.com/gethelp or call 1-800-A-FAMILY. That's 1-800, the letter A, the word family.

J.John: If we don't live by priorities, we're going to live by pressures. So it's making a choice on what those priorities are. One of the prayers that Killy and I frequently pray is, "Lord, guide our steps and guide our stops." Sometimes you have to stop something in order to step into something.

John Fuller: That's British evangelist J.John, and he and his wife, Killy, join us again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. You're going to enjoy the conversation, and thanks for being here. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, we were so delighted to have our friends from across the pond here with us in studio, and they always bring such great stories and they radiate the love of Jesus Christ. That's what we want to help share with you and to do that through your own marriage.

Last time, J.John and Killy laid the foundation for a healthy relationship with your spouse—navigating different personalities, in-laws, and the transformative power of prayer. Today, we're going to continue the conversation talking about the secrets to an enduring friendship, keeping the romance alive, and so much more. If you missed the program last time, get a hold of us to get an audio copy, or you can find the entire episode on YouTube or the Focus on the Family broadcast app, where you can access all the great content anytime you want.

John Fuller: Learn more about our guests and listen to yesterday's broadcast on our website. Let's go ahead and continue the conversation with J.John and his wife, Killy, on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim Daly: J.John and Killy, welcome back to Focus on the Family. So good to have you.

J.John: Thank you so much, Jim.

Jim Daly: You left off last time with something I want to pick up with, and that is praying together. The research—we're going to dig in a little more on that research because we hear so often a couple that is praying together is most likely to avoid divorce.

That one thing, if they do it together—compared to all marriage types: secular marriages, Christian marriages, nominal Christian marriages—when you look at it and if that is a regular practice of theirs, that divorce rate is extremely low compared to every other married type. So in that context, how do you make that practical? You shared with us at the end, but go back and refresh our memory.

J.John: Sure. This is something, Jim, that Killy and I have practiced for 42 years. I'd like just to say to any listener who's now feeling guilty, who's feeling, "Oh, my word, well, we've never done that," and in fact, some friends of ours this week said to us that in the 40 years they've been married, they don't pray together.

So, look, first of all, I want to lift off any kind of condemnation on anybody and say, well, hopefully in this conversation today, you can start today. I often say, "When's the best time to plant a tree?" Well, the best time to plant a tree was 25 years ago, but the second best time to plant a tree is today.

Yeah, I just wanted to kind of diffuse any sense of condemnation if anyone is listening. But we got into this routine and practice of praying in the morning and praying in the evening. If I just quickly run through how we do it: we wake up in the morning, we have a hug, we pray the Lord's Prayer. That's what we do.

What's great about the Lord's Prayer in it is that line, "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us." It's so good just to make sure there is no unforgiveness there because unforgiveness is very toxic and we've got to make sure that we don't have it in our hearts. We then proclaim some promises, we then pray for our family, we pray for our team, we pray for those people who are sick, we pray for those who don't know Jesus. We get up, we then do our stretches. I'm just letting everyone know—

Jim Daly: This is good. I need to stretch.

J.John: Go on, Killy, we stretch.

Killy: We stretch. Can I just say to the young families, the young parents that are listening in or young married couples: this is our routine now. We've always prayed together at the beginning of the day and the end of the day, and that is our recommendation. It doesn't matter what you're going through. If you can get that just couple of minutes together to pray, just start with that. But no, we do our stretches now because we're at that stage in life that you have grandchildren now that you kind of need to—

J.John: Stand tall. You know, so pray, but also stretch if you can. We then have breakfast, and while we're having breakfast, we listen to scripture. That's how routine. That's what we do. So we listen to scripture while we're having some breakfast, and then we get on with the rest of the day.

We will frequently pray together during the day whenever a concern or an issue arises. The first thing we would do is pray, and we always pray before we go to bed.

Jim Daly: I hadn't thought about it in this way, but again in the research we see about 24% of couples in the church are struggling in a marriage that is not doing well. So that's a fairly high number for the Christian community. But when you think about it, you could pay thousands of dollars to do counseling or pray together.

A lot cheaper to pray together and things begin to happen. Now, I'm not trying to minimize serious situations obviously, but what a great—for those couples that are in that lighter unhappy zone, just pray together and see if it changes your heart and invite the Lord into your life. It will change your marriage and your attitude.

Killy: I'd just add to that that I quickly realized that we actually need to have our own time with the Lord. As a couple it's important to pray together, but also as individuals because the Lord does such important work in each of us.

We were talking about self-pity and things like that that someone told me it was a sin, and I think it's so important to make sure that we're renewing our minds individually and our relationship with the Lord. Because if the Lord's first in our life and the Lord's first in our husband's life, it's going to make it so much easier in the marriage rather than the other distractions that we can have.

Jim Daly: Or blaming the other partner. Let me take us back. You mentioned this, Killy. I want to highlight this for the young parents, those that are struggling with time management. We all have been there if we've had kids. There's a time where the pace is ridiculous. If you've got two kids, three kids under four or five, that's a lot of management and moms typically pick up that responsibility and dads are helping hopefully where they can.

In that kind of season, what do you do to keep communication going because by the time you've taken care of everything and done all the things that the home needs done, you lay back in bed and it's basically look at each other and go, "Goodnight," and then you wake up and start the next day in that season. So what can you do for the young marrieds with kids to keep your sanity and find time to do it?

Killy: It's so important to carve out time to be together. There's often talk of date nights, and actually they are important. It's easy when you haven't got children to have a date night, but once the children arrive, it can be a lot harder because you have to maybe get a babysitter.

But the point is to be intentional in having that date night, even if it means sitting down with a nice meal when the kids have gone to bed or whatever and just having time together. So that would be my first kind of thing—date night.

Then I think, just do little things. So even if it's grabbing a coffee and just having a sit down and a chat to try and communicate while the kids are playing or whatever, that can help. I would always say to those young moms, look, even if you can only get one verse in your head in the day, just try and do that. There's loads of apps now. We're so fortunate that will just ping up a verse of the day or whatever. Just try—

J.John: Or listen to worship in the car.

Killy: Or listen to worship in the car. Mind you, we used to listen to *Adventures in Odyssey* with our kids in the car. The cassettes in the car—they were like life-savers.

Jim Daly: See, there's the impact of Odyssey. That thing is—it's the most popular thing. We're just releasing a new movie. It's going to be great, animated, along with more episodes.

Killy: Oh, great! So, you know, you can have all those things. But there can be things that you can be doing that are keeping your mind—because otherwise I found myself singing the *Thomas the Tank Engine* tune when the kids weren't even in the car. So if you can have on worship or more uplifting things, it's just so important.

Jim Daly: Let me ask you if we move to the midyears. The kids are pretty self-sufficient now. They may be in grade 10, 11, 12. They're kind of forming into their little adulthood. So there's an independence that comes with that.

How do you two stay together in that phase of parenting and marriage where you've been so committed to the young kids and they've taken so much time, which is all good, it's not bad. But many couples can drift apart and some of that drift is accelerated at that point. How do you intentionally stay together when your kids are right at the perch of empty nesting?

J.John: Throughout all of this, if we don't live by priorities, we're going to live by pressures. So it's making a choice on what those priorities are. One of the prayers that Killy and I frequently pray is, "Lord, guide our steps and guide our stops."

Sometimes you have to stop something in order to step into something. But because frequently we're all overloaded, there is no space, there's no time. So I think we do need to have that freedom to stop something in order to step into something. Otherwise, it's overwhelming.

Jim Daly: In fact, the Lord spoke to you while you were at church about doing something, and it fits in this stops-and-starts place. What did He ask you to do, and how did you hear that, and how did you respond to it?

J.John: We were in church and the pastor got up and he said, just before the service commences, "I'm sorry to bring this to your attention, but we are desperate. We're desperate for more volunteers to help with the babies, and we need more volunteers to serve coffee."

I remember hearing him and going, "I cannot believe the pastor is sharing all this kind of stuff just before we're going to worship the Lord." I thought, "What kind of a church is this that people don't volunteer?" You're digging your own hole. As I thought that, I felt it like this quiver in my liver.

I knew it wasn't the pizza from the night before. You just get this stirring like this. I turned around and looked at the man behind me, and he looked at me like, "Why are you looking at me?" I thought, well, maybe the word came from the stage but you know how you sit in the chairs and sometimes you lean over. I thought, well, maybe I leaned over and I got the word but it was meant for him.

Jim Daly: Oh, you're hoping. Because I don't want to do the coffee.

J.John: No! The whole service I had this like—the Lord's saying, "Sign up for coffee. Sign up for coffee." I'm like, "Lord, I'm not a barista. I really am not a barista." But I knew. At the end of the service, Killy goes, "What is wrong with you? You fidgeted the whole service."

I said, "Well, Killy, the Lord wants you and me to sign up for coffee," and Killy goes, "Do you think I'm stupid? He wants you to sign up for coffee."

Jim Daly: Good response.

J.John: I said, "Well, you can't let me do it on my own." So we went to sign up for coffee. The lady saw us, she starts laughing. She says, "You can't sign up for coffee! You're never here!" because we preach most weekends.

I said, "Well, actually, we go to church once a month because the other three weekends we're ministering in other churches." I said, "Look, we're here once a month every month, so we'll sign up for coffee."

We signed up and we realized we have to arrive early to set the whole thing up. This is not going to happen by itself. It's getting worse! Then I didn't like the coffee we were serving. So then we started buying our own coffee for the church. And the coffee cups—your fingers got slightly burned because they weren't very good coffee cups. So we bought the coffee cups.

And they didn't have nice biscuits. We thought, "Why are they buying the cheapest biscuits?" So we bought our own. In other words, we started investing in the ministry. I became a barista, and we met more people. I met more people in three years than I had in the previous 17 years.

After three years, I just felt the Lord say, "That's it." I said, "No, Lord, I love doing this!" and I felt the Lord say, "No, it's time." We did it for three years. So it's this idea—Lord, guide our steps, guide our stops. It was a great thing that something that Killy and I could do together.

Jim Daly: I love the back-and-forth with that, with Killy saying, "Yeah, He's calling you to do that, not me."

J.John: But one of the things that Killy and I have done over the years is that we've run a home group in our home. There was one time when we knew all these unchurched people. So we started a group called Agnostics Anonymous.

We would host this group in our home on a Monday night with 16 unchurched people. But it was something we did together. We hosted it, Killy prepped the meal, we did all that. I think ownership of something together—it can impact you as a couple. We've often over the years always tried to do some things where it was 50/50. It wasn't, "Oh, J.John's doing 90 and Killy's doing 10." It was something together we would do.

Jim Daly: That's so good. Right at the end here, we touched on the "Four Rs" last time, but I want to go a little deeper with the Four Rs because that's really the core of your message, I think, out of the book. Respect, responsibility, romance, resolve. So let's hit those again with respect. What are you driving at, Jay, when it comes to respect in marriage?

J.John: Well, the opposite of respect is disrespect. We've noticed how some couples in public will disrespect their spouse. A harsh word, a tone, just maybe even misrepresenting them, maybe a put-down. You're thinking, "Wait a minute, goodness. We need to say something about this."

I think sometimes our culture allows disrespect to fester in people's lives, in people's relationships and marriages. No, we don't want disrespect. We want respect.

Jim Daly: Let me dig into that a little bit because that, in my read of that, it would be born out of frustration. So that spouse that is showing that disrespect, there's something core underneath that. How do we as a couple deal with those things? So let's say you're at a restaurant and this moment of disrespect occurs, and the other spouse is like, "Whoa, where's this energy coming from?" What's a good way to manage the respect-disrespect conversation, like, "Honey, I hear you, but this isn't the exact great spot to be talking about this"?

J.John: Honesty is the key. There have been many occasions when Killy has said to me, "I don't like that tone." She'll say it very softly. "I don't like that tone." It's like a pin in a balloon—just that. Then I have a choice.

Do I apologize or not apologize? Do I start defending? That's a slippery ground. But I think you have to be honest in marriage always. "What you just said hurt me. Did you hear that? What you just said hurt me." I think we're not always honest in conveying how we feel to each other. We've endeavored, haven't we, Killy? Always be honest, always be ready to apologize, and always be ready to fix anything that appears broken.

Jim Daly: And that's the respect factor. The responsibility, the next R, kind of fits that as well. What's your responsibility in the relationship to fix those things, right?

J.John: Yes, that's right. Responsibility—you know, there are certain things that Killy does, there are certain things that I do. There are certain things I do not want to do. So I can be honest about that. I do not want to do the laundry, and I am not doing the ironing. I'm not doing it.

Jim Daly: You've got to coach me. I'm doing the laundry right now for me.

J.John: So I've kind of compromised with Killy, and Killy's like, "Okay, I'm very happy to do the laundry and the ironing, but you've got to do this and this and this." And it's like, "Okay." So I do the trash. I clean all the trash cans. I take all that. That's my job. I do all of that. I clear away the food bin. I do all of that sort of stuff.

I think the thing is, compromise is another word. Honesty is a keyword in marriage; compromise is another keyword in marriage. You can't have your own way the whole time.

Killy: I love those verses in the Bible that say encourage one another, build one another up. If you're doing that, then that shows respect, and the responsibility will flow out of that that you feel encouraged and built up. It's not just one of you doing it to the other; it's both of you doing it to each other. Really important.

Jim Daly: And that kind of lays the foundation for romance, which you mentioned last time. Something to do with needing more courtship in marriage. Talk about the importance of romance and how just in everyday life, especially through the seasons of life, we can be romancing each other.

J.John: Definitely. One of the sayings I like saying is, "If there was more courting in marriage, there would be fewer marriages in court." I think it's this principle—you know, we romanced each other when we were dating. We just anticipated the date. There was joy, expectancy.

Then you get married and you don't have the same anticipation. "What do you want to do Friday?" "I don't know. I'm going to watch the game. Let's just get a pizza. Let's just order out, we'll bring it home and watch the game together. Okay."

Whereas actually, no, no, no, no, no. Again, we've used the word several times: intentionality. I've got to be intentional in wanting to do it, in making time to do it. Enjoy my spouse and enjoy friendship, enjoy conversation. And again, compromise—what makes her happy rather than what makes me happy and she's just got to have it.

Jim Daly: So we covered respect, responsibility, romance. The last would be my favorite: resolve.

J.John: Resolve. My new word: resolve, resilience. That threefold cord is not easily broken. With God, we can make things work. With the Lord, we can face any storm that comes.

The resolve is you've made a decision before a storm has come that if a storm comes, we will rise above it together. You make that decision when the sun is shining. Hence, let us put on the armor of God—helmet of salvation, shield of faith, sword of the spirit, belt of truth, good news of peace on our feet. Yes.

Jim Daly: Thank you. Thanks for being with us. J.John and Killy are a remarkable couple. You can hear their love for the Lord and each other with every story they tell. Right at the end, J.John referred to that famous passage in Ephesians 6, verses 12 through 17, about taking up the full armor of God.

Here at Focus on the Family, we want to help you take up the full armor of God for your family. We want to help you be the best husband or wife, mom or dad, grandma or grandpa that you can be, and we have amazing resources available to help you—like our team of Christian counselors, our Hope Restored marriage intensives, and so much more.

If you need encouragement today, don't hesitate. Give us a call or stop by the website. Or if you'd like to listen to this great content on the go, download the Focus on the Family broadcast app. You'll get access to all the library of articles, broadcasts, and resources, and that's 24/7 encouragement for your marriage, parenting, and your walk with the Lord.

And for a gift of any amount to the ministry, we want to make J.John and Killy's great devotional, *Marriage Works: A 40-Day Devotional to Strengthen Your Relationship*, available to you. Your donations make ministry possible here at Focus on the Family. So donate, get your copy, and let's do ministry together.

John Fuller: Call 800-A-FAMILY or donate and get this wonderful devotional and other resources that have been mentioned along the way at focusonthefamily.com/weekend. If you'd like to hear more from J.John, we have an entire audio collection you can download for free. It's our most popular audio collection ever, and you'll receive hours of J.John's trademark humor, his solid biblical teaching, and his amazing stories. This full audio collection is available for free at our website.

Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

Guest (Female): Navigate all the ups and downs and in-betweens of marriage with our podcast. You'll hear tips about different marriage issues or just hear about making a good marriage even better. Listen to *Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage* at focusonthefamily.com/podcast.