Focus on the Family

John Fuller: This is John Fuller, and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs: on a podcast, app, or website.

Dr. Holly Brand: The number one influence is how the parents are living. Again, we already knew this by reading Deuteronomy, when God said to speak it all day, write it on your doorframes, as you walk, as you lie, share this with your children. It's so true. None of us are going to be perfect. I don't know how many times I have apologized to my children and asked for their forgiveness because we mess up. But that's a great opportunity for them to see that the Lord is real.

John Fuller: That's Dr. Holly Brand, and she joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thank you for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, here's a headline: pop culture is everywhere. It's in our face a lot, and so often it clashes with the Word of God, especially for us as Christians. Going to Vegas for a conference or something—you're not going there to gamble, but you go to Vegas and it's all over the place. Jean has said to me that we're never going there again. Even the airport in Vegas is like that. The billboards—especially if you have young boys. I remember those days. We'd be diving to cover the kids' eyes because it's just so in your face.

Mom and dad, that's part of our responsibility: to raise up our children in a way that they can form strong faith. How do we set the developmental seeds to be able to do that and to help them be in the world but not of the world? Small, intentional choices in parenting can have a lifelong impact. I think we're seeing that with our kids, John; I'm sure you're seeing that with yours.

Today we have a special guest who's written a great little workbook, *Christ and Culture 2.0*. She is a professor at a Christian university and deals with the young culture every day. I'm looking forward to this discussion.

John Fuller: I am too, Jim. Dr. Holly Brand has served as Professor of Psychology at Missouri Baptist University in St. Louis, where she was honored with the MBU Distinguished Professor Award. She specializes in child, adolescent, and adult development, but perhaps more importantly, she's married to Todd and has three older children.

Jim Daly: Holly, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Dr. Holly Brand: Well, thank you, Jim and John. You know that I love all things Focus on the Family, so this is truly an honor.

Jim Daly: What's so funny is you're a super fan. You say you listen to the program every day. We love that. You do it on the app, which is convenient.

Dr. Holly Brand: The app is awesome.

Jim Daly: You're in the middle of being an observer of the cultural clash because you're on a college campus every day. You're hearing 18 and 19-year-olds coming into your classroom and talking about stuff. You're a PhD in psychology, so you have that great background to better understand how people think and what wires the human brain. In that context, what are you seeing on a college campus that maybe is different today than it was 20 years ago?

Dr. Holly Brand: I just finished my 25th year, which blows my mind. I would say the increase in anxiety, fear, worry, and even despair. Even over things that we would consider daily challenges or normal stress, their ability to cope is really limited. That's a big thing that I've seen over 25 years.

I've also seen the increase of moral relativism. You get to choose what's right for you, and I get to choose what's right for me, and there's no understanding of absolute truth. I think the last data that I saw is that about four percent of people have a belief in absolute truth, which is startling. If you don't have that foundation of truth, the world is a scary place. It's a scary place anyway, but they're really struggling, and this is even on a Christian campus.

Jim Daly: How did this workbook come about?

Dr. Holly Brand: Maybe like a lot of people, I became really alert to the cultural rot when I became a parent, especially the parent of a little boy. A bit of backstory: Tanner would have been about three, so it would have been about 2006. It's a Saturday afternoon, and we're watching Cardinals baseball.

All of a sudden, during a commercial break, there was a company back then who was using soft porn to sell their product. This commercial comes on and it's a striptease. Tanner's three-year-old eyes were like saucers, and I'm scrambling for the remote. I turn it off, and then I got mad, like Mama Bear mad. Who thinks it's okay on a Saturday afternoon to put this kind of content in front of my child?

A couple of years later, we enrolled our children in a local Christian school, which is a wonderful Christian school. But even then, I discovered Christian schools are not immune from cultural influence. I would see things there too, and I just continued to complain about it. At that time, I was president of the school board at the school, and Todd looked at me one day as I was complaining. He said, "You're the president of the school board. Do something about it," and he just walked away.

I stood there not knowing what to do. Then came the phone call. It's always the phone call. A year or so later, I get a phone call from a dad of a third-grade girl at our school. This little girl was describing the wedding she had gone to for two women.

The dad, who is a strong believer and a strong Christian man, said on the phone to me, "I was so taken aback. I didn't know what to say, and I didn't say anything. I've been kicking myself for 24 hours." He said, "My question to you as president of the school board is: how far is our school willing to go on matters of the culture?" I thanked him, I hung up, and I said, "Okay, Lord." As fast as my hand would write, 36 topics just came pouring out. That was the foundation of *Christ and Culture*. Fast forward about eight years later, and I get the phone call: "Would you consider doing a second edition and include gender identity?"

Jim Daly: In the workbook—and again, I love the style of the workbook because this is great for parents to sit down and go through—what would you say the target age range is?

Dr. Holly Brand: Great question. I originally wrote it to use as curriculum in our children's Christian school. At the time, we decided to start it in third grade, so around the age of eight to nine. If you look at some of the topics, such as pornography, you might say that seems early. If you understand that the average age of exposure to pornography is eight, we have to get to these kids with truth so that they can be able to discern the cultural rot. Actually, first and second graders are exposed to the content as well; they just don't have their own copy, and they remove some of the heavier topics. But really, it is elementary school age.

Jim Daly: In there, you also talk about three pillars upon which our children's lives should be built. Let's hit those three pillars.

Dr. Holly Brand: The first five years of life are about respect for authority and legitimate sources of authority, primarily God and parents. There's this concept called the "two-year-old teenager." Parents, we panic when our kids become teenagers, but teenage rebellion is not normal human development, and it's not inevitable. That rebellious teenager was a rebellious two-year-old who was not properly disciplined. The word "discipline" means to teach three things: self-control, character, and acceptable behavior. Most of us focus on the acceptable behavior part, and we miss the heart of the child. If you can get proper respect for authority by the age of five, you've got a good foundation.

The next pillar, between ages six and 12, is character. Who are you when no one's looking? It is about doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. What comes after age 12 is the teen years. They are going to be faced with so many character decisions that you and I can't make for them. My kids have never invited me on one of their dates. I'm fun, but I don't get to go on their dates for them. They're going to be faced with character decisions in the area of sexuality, to cheat or not to cheat, to use AI on their homework, to lie or not to lie. All day, every day, there are character decisions. If they don't have the foundation of character development before the teen years, it is going to be tough.

The third pillar during the teen years is identity development. Answering the question "Who am I?" is vital because aging is just an accumulation of days. It's one day on top of the next day. If you don't have your identity solidly secure by the time you hit age 12, then everything that builds from there is hindered.

Jim Daly: In that context, that takes me to the competition for identity. The culture is all about absorbing this or that identity. Let's jump into that a little deeper. When you're talking about identity for kids, I think some parents would be thinking, "How do I do that? I've got a day job, too."

Dr. Holly Brand: It's so much simpler than we think, and it's in the daily communication. I've been speaking, teaching, and writing for 30 years now, and I am convinced that the root cause of virtually every problem that every human has is lack of identity in Jesus. I really believe that.

There are two basic types of identity. The first is basic identity: you are a child created in the image of God. You are of great worth and great value, and that will never change. The other is role identity that really gets developed and focused on during the teen years. But we miss the basic identity, and so many kids are left to wonder who they are, and then we find it in our role identity. For example, I am Mrs. Todd Brand. It is a big part of my identity. Todd had a heart attack and almost died a few months ago. Who would I have been if he had passed away? If he dies before me, I'll no longer be Mrs. Todd Brand. If I have my identity tied to something that is changeable, I'm in big trouble.

When my kids were babies, every time I would change their diaper, I would pretty much share the Gospel. I would just tell them, "You are a child created in the image of God. You are precious, you are so loved, you are valuable, and that will never change." If you can get a child to the teen years with that solid basic identity, they can see through the lies of the culture. For example, the number one reason that teenage girls give for having sex during the teen years is they want to feel loved. What a perverted idea of love. It promises so much but delivers literally nothing.

There's a scripture in Proverbs 27:7: "A satisfied soul loathes the honeycomb, but to a hungry soul, every bitter thing is sweet." Let's unpack that because I was that hungry soul. I was that hungry 20-year-old approval-seeking girl looking for love and affection through relationships. A satisfied soul who knows who they are can see right through that flattering tongue that just wants to use them. But to a hungry soul who's hungry for love and affection and attention, what will ultimately cause her bitter pain seems sweet at the time. If you know who you are and you know who you belong to, it's so much easier to say no. It takes so much character to say no; it takes no character to say yes to peer pressure.

John Fuller: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and today our guest is Dr. Holly Brand. We're talking about some of the content in her terrific workbook called *Christ and Culture 2.0*. You can get a copy of the book from us here, and we'd encourage you to do that when you stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Holly, what I was aiming for is this: first of all, parents have to live it well. They have to live their Christian faith well to invite their children into that journey. Kids are so good at sniffing hypocrisy, especially during the teen years. You need to be mindful of that. If you're not living the faith well, it doesn't have to be perfect, but when it's not, apologize to your kids. When they see an anger outburst or you say something you shouldn't have said because somebody cut you off, you need to be able to say that was not healthy and that wasn't honoring to the Lord. Let them hear you do that. That gives them that basis.

Speak to the importance of being authentic as an adult and as a parent so your kids can see that.

Dr. Holly Brand: It's huge. Some of my favorite research in neurology comes from the National Institute for Mental Health. Dr. Jay Giedd has done all kinds of MRI studies on children's and teens' brains. Shocker: wouldn't you know that the number one influence on how to shape a teenager's brain and his or her mind is parental example? We already knew that, but that is the number one influence. Their brains are truly sponges, and the number one influence is how the parents are living.

Again, we already knew this by reading Deuteronomy when God said to speak it all day, write it on your doorframes, as you walk, as you lie, share this with your children. You are so right: none of us are going to be perfect. I don't know how many times I have apologized to my children and asked for their forgiveness because we mess up. But that's a great opportunity for them to see that the Lord is real and He does redeem. We don't have to be canceled; we get a second do-over and a third and a fourth.

Jim Daly: Let me go back to something you mentioned, which I think is a grave mistake that we make in Christian parenting, but it is this overemphasis on behavior. Behavior is important, but the heart is far more important. How do we address the heart that drives the right behavior and make sure the child, when they hear "don't do that," doesn't feel like you're rejecting the child? It takes a little adult thought to make sure you're doing this well, but you've got to separate those two things and go after the heart attitude. How do we do that?

Dr. Holly Brand: If we miss the heart, we end up with little whitewashed tombs. Jesus talked about that. Think about what's inside a gleaming beautiful tomb: dead, rotting flesh and bones. If we just focus on the outer behavior, we can end up with kids who have the character of "well, it's okay as long as I don't get caught."

When Todd and I first became parents, I read Tedd Tripp's book, *Shepherding a Child's Heart*. I highly recommend it. I am the type of personality that just wants the top 10 ways to produce great kids. Give me the formula and I'll just produce some great kids. I'm reading this book and he's talking about how you've got to get to the heart. If you change the heart, behavior follows.

This is where psychology shines. Behavior is just an extension of what's going on in the mind. God's Word is all over this. Proverbs 23:7 says, "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he." Philippians 4:8 tells us to think about things that are true and right and holy and pure. That's what you start with. Talk with the child about what they were thinking and how to change that thinking, and the behavior will follow.

John Fuller: There's such a great element of intentionality to what you're talking about. As you were talking about your experience with cancer, I thought that this is where, unintentionally, our kids are watching us. That leads to tech and screens and discernment because so much is flooding them. How do we set the example as parents, and then how do we get to their heart on this?

Dr. Holly Brand: You grab the "why." Kids are so much more likely to follow your lead if they know the "why" behind it. That's the whole heart of this book: what is the "why" behind what God does? Why does God put boundaries on us? Why do I, as a parent, put boundaries on your screen time? Because here is all the detriment that occurs if we don't, and here is all the blessing that occurs if we do.

We're so good at telling kids "no, don't do that," "no, don't eat that," "no, you can't watch that," and we never tell them what they can say yes to. They have to hear that God puts boundaries on our behavior because it protects our hearts, our minds, and our bodies. You look at the average teen; they don't get nearly enough sleep. Their stress goes through the roof just because they're on their screens late into the night. That's a simple reason. We're going to put our screens away because God has given us a purpose tomorrow when we get up. He's got work for us to do, and we need to be well-rested.

Jim Daly: Right here at the end, let me come back and address a couple of things that we touched on lightly that I think parents really need to catch. One is you said we so often ask, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" But this idea of *who* do you want to be when you grow up? In hindsight, I don't know if I spent ample time on that. I touched on it, but probably not in the same way as vocation. As parents, how do we get that as the bullseye?

Dr. Holly Brand: I think it's a brilliant question and it really shifts the focus back to that basic identity. You are a child created in the image of God. He's given you gifts and talents and abilities to love and serve Him and to love and serve others. That's our whole purpose. If you can reinforce that in the first 10 years of life, without even asking them what they want to be when they grow up, what they want to be will flow from who they already are.

I get so many college students who have no idea what they're good at. They don't know their personality types, they don't know any of their gifts, and they say they're not good at anything, which is a big fat lie. You spend the child's second decade figuring out, "Okay, this is what you're really good at. God's given you a gift of speaking." I remember your story about your mom's friend telling you that you have diarrhea of the mouth. Look at what happened: you're in front of a microphone every day. We can say to a 14-year-old, "God's given you the ability to speak and to communicate. I wonder if He might use that in your vocation."

Jim Daly: Your son struggled with questions about God's goodness. This is so common, and I love the honesty that he was portraying. In that context, what happened and how did it become a lesson for him?

Dr. Holly Brand: When our middle child Walker was 16, one of his friends at school committed suicide. Walker was the last person that he communicated with. They were texting back and forth, and this young man had wrecked the car and he was afraid of getting into trouble. In that emotional moment, he made a permanent decision. Walker really was struggling with his faith. He'd ask, "Mom, is any of it real? Is God who He says He is? Is He good?"

Todd and I just kind of had to stand back and pray. Walker needed to do his own deep dive, and he did. We provided him with resources. One of my all-time favorite broadcasts was with J. Warner Wallace, the former detective who wrote *Person of Interest*. I gave Walker his book and said, "You're going to have to do your deep dive," and he did. For the next year, he talked to counselors at school, he talked to his Bible teacher, he listened to podcasts, he read, he prayed, and he reached out. A year later, he emerged as Billy Graham Jr. He is an evangelist. He knows what he believes and why he believes it. It wasn't just an emotional outcome; it was a solid heart change and mind change.

Jim Daly: We did a program with Lee Strobel about talking to your teens about Jesus, and he mentioned something very powerful. He asked, "If you could ask God one question and He would have to answer it, what would the question be?" My son Trent, the scientist, thought about it for 10 minutes and then he said, "I think I'd want to know from God what is that thing we're not seeing—the element that allowed You to create the universe that we don't understand."

Then Troy the writer said, "I think I'd like to know why we suffer." So much of what you're saying is from the heart. This is who we are, and then how do we shape that as parents to guide them to a belief in Christ and then a life with Christ by aiming at the heart? I feel so bad for that story of that boy who took his life because he made some mistakes, but parents, it's just a car.

Holly, again, thank you for being with us.

Dr. Holly Brand: Thank you so much. My pleasure.

Jim Daly: And let me turn to you, our listener. Focus on the Family is here for you. I hope you hear my heart in that. We want to equip you with all that you need to raise the next generation of Christ followers. Holly's book being one of them, *Christ and Culture 2.0* is the perfect place to start. When you give a gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry here at Focus on the Family.

Your continued prayers and financial support allow us to provide much-needed help to individuals and families. Over the past 12 months, Focus helped inspire and equip more than 750,000 people to work toward promoting biblical and pro-family values in the culture through civic engagement. Imagine the impact you can have. We couldn't do this ministry without you, so please give a gift today.

John Fuller: Donate today and request your copy of the book by Dr. Holly Brand, *Christ and Culture 2.0*, when you call 800-A-FAMILY or at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.