A New Beginning

Guest (Male): Today on A New Beginning, we feature a candid discussion with Pastor Chuck Smith, who went to be with the Lord in October of 2013.

Chuck Smith: The question is always why. And that question will haunt you and make you crazy trying to figure out why did this happen and so forth. But I don't know why, but what I do know is that God is good and God loves me and God's working out his perfect plan in my life and so I'm just content with that.

Guest (Male): It's a special edition of A New Beginning today. We're celebrating Legends Week, hearing from those that have had an uncommon impact for the Kingdom. Last time, Louis Zamperini. And Pastor Greg, today we feature your interview with Pastor Chuck Smith, the founder of the Calvary Chapel network of churches and one of the key catalysts of the Jesus Movement. You've interviewed a lot of people; was this an easy interview?

Greg Laurie: Sometimes when you know someone really well, it's not easy to interview them. You have a sense of who they are and you already know the answers before they give them. For instance, when I interviewed Louis Zamperini, I was just getting to know him. I had just read the book *Unbroken*, which was the story of his life, so I was learning as I was interviewing.

But with Pastor Chuck, I've known him for over 40 years. As a young man coming to Christ and attending his church where he was my pastor there at Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, then through the years as I started in the ministry, my relationship with Chuck changed over the years. He wasn't the easiest guy to interview, believe it or not. He was a very private man. He didn't really like to talk about himself that much.

But I knew there were some fascinating stories in his life that people needed to hear. I also had the sense when I was interviewing Pastor Chuck that this was something that was effectively preserving his legacy for posterity. In other words, I thought, "This is something people will view later, beyond the moment we're in."

It's something that I felt needed to be done for Pastor Chuck because people needed to know his story. They still need to know his story because it's an inspiring story of how God chose a man to literally change a generation. And so, here now is the interview I did with Pastor Chuck Smith from Harvest Orange County.

Tell me about your call to ministry, Chuck.

Chuck Smith: Well, actually, Greg, I was studying to be a medical doctor.

Greg Laurie: You were going to be a doctor? You would have been a great doctor, I think.

Chuck Smith: Well, I would have had a lot of compassion, I’m sure. In fact, I think that's what was in my heart, helping people. I just figured that as a successful doctor, I could be a great layman in some church and just support and serve the Lord in that capacity.

I was living in Santa Ana at the time, and the pastor came up one Sunday and said, "There's a lady in the church that has paid a sponsorship for someone to go to the youth camp. Why don't you go?" And I said, "Well, I had plans to go to Corona del Mar and surf."

Greg Laurie: And what year was this?

Chuck Smith: This was about 1943 or '44, somewhere in there.

Greg Laurie: So you had plans to go to the beach, but you went to a camp instead?

Chuck Smith: Well, that's summer, Corona del Mar.

Greg Laurie: I understand. I think that was before the jetty was there, so the waves were bigger.

Chuck Smith: No, the jetty was there. We used to watch for the end of the jetty when the waves were at the end, when they were up high, and we would all head into the water to catch those waves.

So I went on up to this summer camp, and the speaker at the camp was a very inspiring fellow. He made the statement, "You have only one life; it will soon be passed. And only what's done for Christ will last." It just hit me.

That afternoon, I was out under a big pine tree with my Bible, just thinking about one life, it'll soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last. I felt the Lord speaking to my heart and saying, "Look, you can go ahead and become a doctor and you can help people physically, and you can help them for a time, but they're all going to die. But if you will devote your life to helping people spiritually, then you're going to help them eternally. Now do you want to give your life for something that is temporal or something that is eternal?"

I couldn't argue with that, and so that was where I felt the Lord was calling me to go to Bible college. I figured when I went home and told my mom that I wasn't going to be a doctor, I was going to go to Bible college instead of USC, she said, "Well, son, if that's what you feel the Lord is calling you to do, that's wonderful."

Greg Laurie: So you went to Life Bible College. You started amazingly as a traveling evangelist. I mean, you’re known as the expositor extraordinaire, but you were a traveling evangelist. Then the Lord redirected you. I want to talk a little bit about your wonderful wife, Kay. I want to talk about the time you met her. It was at a ball game, as I recall, and I think your brother may have been playing. So Kay comes along, and that wasn't the first time you saw her, was it?

Chuck Smith: Well, I'd seen her the night before down at Echoes of Eden, a black church in Los Angeles. The young people used to go Sunday nights because they had a radio broadcast and they had good music, and it was just the in thing for the kids to go down there. I saw her; she had come with friends and I had been there with friends. I thought, she’s a good-looking gal.

The next night, my brother was playing ball, and I went up to watch him play ball. There was this gal sitting there on the stands, on the benches there. I knew her, so I was sitting there talking to her. Kay came up with some of her friends. She had been in Bible college that night and had come over to the game after the school.

She got out a hanky and started dusting off the bench. I scooted away from this gal because I didn't want her to think that I was with that gal.

Greg Laurie: Smart guy.

Chuck Smith: And so I said, "Here, I've dusted off a place for you." So she sat down. Then she remembered that she had left some books back at the Bible college and had to go get them. I said, "Well, I'll drive you back to get them." There was this real old funky car there, and so I opened the door and let her get in and sit down. I walked around to the driver's side, then I started laughing. I said, "This is not my car. I don't know who the car belongs to."

Greg Laurie: I’ve never heard that. That's funny.

Chuck Smith: But I had a neat Ford convertible at that time, and it was parked right in front of that car.

Greg Laurie: So it was a definite upgrade.

Chuck Smith: Yes, it was definitely an upgrade. So we went back to the college, and then we went to Van de Kamp's that night, one of those places we all went. I took her home, and that was the beginning of our relationship.

Greg Laurie: You guys fell in love. It’s been said love at first sight is nothing special; it's when two people have been looking at each other for years and still love each other that it becomes a miracle. You’ve been married to Kay for how long?

Chuck Smith: 63 years.

Greg Laurie: 63 years. So how long was your courtship? Go ahead, say it.

Chuck Smith: Six weeks.

Greg Laurie: Six weeks!

Chuck Smith: Our friends said it'll never last.

Greg Laurie: Well, they were sure wrong, weren't they?

Chuck Smith: Oh, they've all died.

Greg Laurie: That’s funny. Okay, so Chuck, question: What’s the secret to a long and successful marriage? I know it's a big question, but just give us a couple thoughts. You’ve been married all these years. Tell us what the secret is.

Chuck Smith: Well, I think it's having Christ at the center of it. Because differences are going to arise. But if you can always come together in Christ—in other words, you don't agree maybe on certain things that you should be doing and so forth—but if you can bring it to the Lord and say, "Now, Lord, you guide us in this and you give us the decision." So it's not my mastering over her or her mastering over me, but it's both of us being mastered by Jesus Christ.

Greg Laurie: I think what people don't know about you, Chuck, is you’ve had a lot of ups and downs in life. Because you’re such an optimistic person, people may think, "Oh, he's had a really happy life." And really, what we've talked about so far has been a really happy life. Born in Ventura, living around the beach, great times. But you’ve had your hard times as well.

In your book, *A Memoir of Grace*, you write: "Grace does not shield the cruel realities of a world damaged by the fall. We're not in heaven yet, and God does not spare us from the crushing blows that come to everyone. We lose people we love, we suffer, we grieve, we journey on. But we're not abandoned." Chuck, an unimaginable tragedy happened to you when your father and your brother were killed in a plane crash. Where were you when you heard that news, and how did you react to such a horrific thing?

Chuck Smith: Well, my brother had started a motorcycle shop up in Victorville. He had a plane, and my dad went up—my dad had retired and went up to help him because my dad was real sharp in business and accounting and all. They were going to fly on down to Orange County from Victorville in my brother's plane. It was a stormy night.

We went out to the Orange County airport to pick them up and figured the time they'd be there, and they didn't show up. We waited an hour and became a little apprehensive, so we went on home. We were living in Huntington Beach at the time. We got the call from them, and my brother had just gotten his license and wasn't that familiar with flying. But he had gotten on the wrong vector and had landed in San Diego rather than Orange County. They were going to refuel and fly on up to Orange County.

So we went back out to the airport. But the storm—they came right into the center of the storm. The plane was a small plane, and it just had run out of fuel when they were over the San Onofre area, and they crashed down there, and they both were killed in the crash.

It was an interesting thing. That was extremely hard for me to handle because it was so sudden. You're not prepared for it, you're not ready for it, and it's a shock that just really hits you right in the guts. I had a hard, hard time. After that, I would dream that my dad and brother—we did a lot of things together—that we'd be out, and I would be so excited in my dream that here we are having this great time water skiing or whatever.

Then you wake up to the reality that they're not there. It was just so hard. It took me a long time to actually get over that. The question is always why. And that question will haunt you and make you crazy trying to figure out why did this happen and so forth. But I don't know why, but what I do know is that God is good and God loves me and God's working out his perfect plan in my life and so I'm just content with that.

Greg Laurie: Do you ever have doubts, Chuck? Just about why is this happening, this isn't right?

Chuck Smith: No, no way.

Greg Laurie: Are you afraid? Do you have fears?

Chuck Smith: No fears.

Greg Laurie: You don't ever have things that frighten you?

Chuck Smith: No.

Greg Laurie: Boo! Didn't work. The thing is, knowing Chuck, I believe what he's saying because he lives what he says. You’ve been a model on running the race of life. We've seen you start your race, we've talked about that tonight, maybe a middle point somewhere around the Jesus Movement, and now you’re coming to where you’re thinking about finishing the race.

Billy Graham was asked the question in an interview: "If you were to do things over again, would you do it differently?" He said, "Yes, I would study more, I would pray more, I would travel less, take less speaking engagements. If I had it to do over again, I'd spend more time in meditation and prayer, just telling the Lord how much I love Him and I'm looking forward to the time that we're going to spend together for eternity." Chuck, if you were going to do things over again, would you do anything differently?

Chuck Smith: Greg, I think that the Lord had charge of the whole thing, and so I wouldn't try and improve on His program.

Greg Laurie: What has been the best decision of your life?

Chuck Smith: Marrying Kay.

Greg Laurie: I thought you would say that. Do you remember your first sermon, Chuck?

Chuck Smith: Yes, I do.

Greg Laurie: What did you preach on?

Chuck Smith: Well, I preached on "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me."

Greg Laurie: Let me ask you some of the really important questions now that are burning on everyone's mind right now, Chuck Smith. What is your favorite color?

Chuck Smith: It all depends on what you're talking about. If you're talking about eyes, my wife has the most beautiful blue eyes, and so blue would be the favorite color for eyes. If you talk about lips, well, I don't think blue would be my favorite color.

Greg Laurie: Unless they're very cold. And hair is not so good either, blue hair. So you like blue.

Chuck Smith: Yes.

Greg Laurie: What’s your favorite kind of food?

Chuck Smith: Rack of lamb.

Greg Laurie: What’s your favorite song?

Chuck Smith: *The Love of God*.

Greg Laurie: How’s that go?

Chuck Smith: "The love of God is greater far than tongue or pen can ever tell. The love of God goes beyond the highest star and reaches to the lowest hell."

Greg Laurie: Why is that your favorite song?

Chuck Smith: Well, I think that’s probably the first song I sang as a solo in church when I was a kid.

Greg Laurie: How old were you?

Chuck Smith: I was 14.

Greg Laurie: What natural gift would you have liked to possess? I mean, you wanted to be a doctor, you ended up as a pastor-teacher. Have you ever thought, "Man, I wish I could have done this"?

Chuck Smith: Well, I really admire musicians. I would like to have had probably the gift like Dennis of playing the guitar. I like music and I would like to have been proficient in an instrument.

Greg Laurie: I’ve always said I wish I could play guitar. Maybe in heaven we’ll both have Elvis hair and we’ll be rocking out on guitar. That’d be fun. Who are your heroes?

Chuck Smith: Billy Graham definitely is one of my heroes.

Greg Laurie: And you’ve gotten to know Billy Graham?

Chuck Smith: I’ve had that privilege, yes.

Greg Laurie: I’ve heard him speak of you many times, of his admiration for you and the work that God gave to you. He really thinks very highly of you, so I know it's a mutual feeling. Mutual admiration. I remember you telling the story—we were having lunch, you and I and Franklin, his son, and Jonathan, my son—and you told the story of when you went and heard Billy Graham for the first time at a Youth for Christ meeting.

He wasn't as well known as he was to become later when he did his tent meeting in Los Angeles in 1949, but you even remembered his sermon. What did he preach on?

Chuck Smith: Well, actually, it was at Anaheim High School and it was at a Youth for Christ on a Saturday night. He was saying that Hitler raised the swastika and thousands of German youth marched under the swastika, many of them to their death, but those that died for Hitler died in vain.

Stalin raised the hammer and sickle and millions of Russian youth marched under the banner of the hammer and sickle, many to their death, but those that died under the hammer and sickle died in vain. He said Jesus raised the cross. He said through the years thousands of young people have marched under the banner of the cross, many of them to their death, but those who died for Christ never died in vain. That really stuck in my mind.

Greg Laurie: That still preaches, doesn't it? That’s good stuff. What makes you laugh? What do you find funny?

Chuck Smith: My grandkids.

Greg Laurie: They’re always fun, aren’t they? How do you want to be remembered, Chuck?

Chuck Smith: Just as one who loves the Word of God and loves the people of God.

Greg Laurie: And you are known for that now. So you’re already there. Chuck, any final thought of something you would like to say to us about serving the Lord, following the Lord, that is really important to you?

Chuck Smith: We are living in a rapidly changing world. The important thing is that we hold on to an unchanging Christ. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. When you're living in uncertain kinds of conditions, it's just important that you have an anchor that doesn't change. So, just hold on to our unchanging Christ. Hold the course.

Greg Laurie: It’s not very often that someone comes and impacts an entire generation of people, but Chuck Smith clearly was one of those men. He was a major part in a full-blown American revival called the Jesus Movement. And because of his faithful teaching of the Word, the impact of that movement continues to this present day through the people that he has influenced.

After my son Christopher went to be with the Lord, Chuck Smith came over to my house and we were talking. I asked him why. "Why would this happen, Chuck?" And he said to me, "Greg, never trade what you don't know for what you do know." That was something I remembered and it's stayed with me.

What do I not know? Well, I don't know why the Lord called my son home at the age of 33 and I don't know a lot of things. But what I do know is God loves me, I do know my son is in heaven, I do know I'll see him again.

So let's apply that now to Pastor Chuck himself. What do we not know? Well, we don't understand why Chuck would get cancer. Why does a man of God like Chuck have to suffer? We don't know the answer to that. But here's what we do know. We do know he loved the Lord, we do know that he faithfully preached the gospel and taught the Word of God.