Focal Point

Dave Druey: Well, we've all heard the term "give it your all," but when it comes to your faith, what in the world does that mean? Well, pour yourself some coffee, pick up your Bible, and get ready to go deep because we're about to explore this topic right now on Focal Point.

Welcome to Focal Point. I'm your host Dave Druey, and we're glad you're here today. Well, this is the time we clear out our regular schedule to sit down with Pastor Mike Fabarez to get answers to your questions. You know, most of us need to earn a living, and we've got deadlines and family obligations to juggle. So what's left? Does God really ask us to do more? Well, let's pass the mic on over to Executive Director Jay Werton as he cues up a question on giving your all. Jay?

Jay Werton: Yes, here with Pastor Mike in the pastor study. Pastor Mike, here's a good question from a listener. In Luke 14, Jesus says unless we give up everything, we cannot be his disciple. Does everything really mean everything?

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Yes, it does, but I think we need to recognize what's happening when we come to Christ. We are renouncing everything to be the servant and worshiper of the triune God. In other words, the context there, it does a lot of comparative work in Luke 14 where there's the idea of what are the other loves? What are the other loyalties? What are the other priorities of your life?

Now, God just wants to be God. Idolatry is a good way to view this. Every other rival supreme priority has to be laid aside. In that passage, it even says those startling words, "unless you hate your mother and father." Well, we know in the Bible I'm supposed to love my mother and father. But it cannot be a rival love, and at some point if there ever was a conflict between my loyalty and love for God and my loyalty and love for my parents, my parents would have to lose.

That may feel like hate to them. You can see that as a conceivable response to someone saying, "Well, I'm not number one in your life?" It's like a wedding. You go to a wedding and you take these vows: "Do you take this woman to be your wife, forsaking all others?" That line comes in there, right? And she'll be your wife in richer or poorer, sickness and health, till death do you part, all that. But the idea of forsaking all others. Not that I don't ever have any relationship with any other person. It's not like I don't have any friends in my life. It's just that here is the ultimate human relationship, and this takes priority over the others.

That's what God wants to be in our lives. God wants to be God. Idolatry has to be jettisoned, has to go away, and we have to let God be God.

Jay Werton: And your lifestyle is going to change as well because you are a follower of the God of the Bible. A lot of people will then turn to you and say, "Well, you're just preaching works. You're making me do these things to be saved." How would we respond to somebody like that?

Pastor Mike Fabarez: I guess you could take that back to the marriage illustration. That I have to do something to earn this covenant relationship? That's not the point. The point isn't what you do to earn it. The point is this is fundamental to the relationship. You don't earn a wife by forsaking all others. It's just fundamental to having a wife: you forsake all others.

That idea of supremacy doesn't do anything to earn your salvation. It is just fundamental to the relationship between you and the God of the universe. So we don't earn our salvation by giving anything up. It's just that you can't have a relationship with God any more than you can have a relationship with your wife if she's not the supreme human relationship that you have. And with God, he's got to be your ultimate priority above all things.

Jay Werton: There may be some people out there listening, Pastor Mike, that have considered Christianity, but they see this "I've got to renounce everything and give up everything." They maybe have the words of Christ harkening in their brains from Matthew 19 to the rich young ruler, "go and sell all you have and give to the poor." How does God operate within us becoming Christians? I've heard you illustrated it in some ways like "under new management."

Pastor Mike Fabarez: No, and that's a good way to view it. In that same passage we started with in Luke 14, there was the picture of the king coming with a greater army than your army. If you want to make peace, it says if you go and make terms of peace, then you get out of the war.

When we realize that God is God and nothing else should get in the way of that, then I concede the fact that he is God. I want terms of peace, and the terms of peace are he takes over. See, two countries, one with a bigger army than the other, doesn't just say, "Oh, let's not fight, let's go our separate ways." The stronger army becomes the occupying force and we are under new management.

So yes, I give up everything. Everything I have is God's. Now the question is: what is he going to let me do or what does he want me to do? And I'll do it. In my life, and I've shared my testimony many times with you, but I had two giant loves in my life: music and my girlfriend who's now my wife. I put both of those on the altar, and they still are on the altar.

I realize God is the ultimate love and priority of my life. But God gave one of them back to me and said, "I'll take the other one." He didn't want me in a life of music. He didn't want me to be a musician. He wanted me to be a preacher. And so he said, "Yeah, I'll take that. I want to steer you away from that career." And yet this relationship you have with her, as long as we know who's first here. God is first, not this girl, then fine.

Though I thought it was over because I thought it was going to be a conflict in terms of: are you ready to be married to me and I'm going to be a pastor? I don't know where I'm going to be in life, a missionary, whatever I might end up doing. But God was gracious in giving my wife back to me much like Isaac was given back to Abraham and they enjoyed a relationship as they walked down the hill of Mount Moriah. But it was very different because as God says at the end of that chapter, "I know that you love me. You've proved it." The whole passage started with God tested Abraham.

So there's going to be those tests. And even though we say this wholeheartedly when we become Christians, there's going to be things where he's going to say: what about that career? What about that hobby? What about that form of entertainment? Whatever it might be. And some of them he may say, "Oh, you can continue in that," and others he's going to say, "No, I don't want you doing that anymore. I'd rather you do this." He'll make that clear through the providential circumstances of your life and through your study of the word and through wise counsel.

Jay Werton: We have to be willing to give up everything. We may not have to give up everything.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Another way to say it maybe, Jay, is everything has to be dethroned. The only thing in the throne is that God is the king. And so nothing takes the place of preeminence in my life but God.

Now, what is the practical function of my life? Did these things stay in my life? Perhaps they do. Some of them do, some of them don't. But here's the thing: when he takes them, it may hurt for a little while, but you realize if God doesn't want this to be a part of my life, then I'm on to something else.

Some people when they really come to Christ they say, "I'll do anything for you." God pulls them out of the career they always thought they were going to have, like in my case, and he says, "No, I want you to go here." I don't sit around and miss this, "Why am I not what I wanted to be?" I'm doing what I know God wants me to do. And there's nothing more fulfilling than that.

Jay Werton: Pastor Mike, some people might be listening to me going, "Man, that sounds like varsity Christianity, Christianity over the top." How would we respond to somebody like that?

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Well, I was just talking about the gospel with someone this weekend who said that very thing to me. Not exactly in those words, but was talking about the fact that "Well, I just wanted Christ to be my insurance." He literally used those words: "Insurance." And I said, "Well, he won't do that. He doesn't play that role. He's going to be the king."

So it may sound like varsity Christianity only against the backdrop of an insipid, weak, unbiblical gospel that's out there. And by that I mean get your insurance policy, just put some Jesus words in your life, pray a few prayers, make sure you hit church every now and then, and all will be copacetic with you and God. That's not what the Bible teaches.

The Bible teaches that to be a Christian is to turn to the God of the universe and let him be God in your life. And the only way that can happen is to have the atonement for your sins provided for in Christ, and then God focuses your attention on him. Jesus says, "Why would you ever call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say?" That's what it means to be the Lord. So it's a life of obedience. It's not about earning your place in the family, but it's about knowing what it means to be a Christian, to be his disciple. To be his follower is to follow him and let him be the boss and the manager.

Jay Werton: Thank you, Pastor Mike. An incredibly important topic, and you recently gave a sermon on this and we're going to listen to it right now. It's called "Curiosity and Real Conversion."

Pastor Mike Fabarez: When Jesus calls Peter and the other disciples that are mentioned in the first 11 verses of Luke 5, he said to Peter, "Hey you, put out into the deep, let your nets down for a catch." Now Simon answered, "Master, we toiled all night and took nothing."

Now I know nothing about fishing. But they say that when it comes to the Sea of Galilee, usually nighttime is the time to fish. They did that, the fishermen of the Sea of Galilee. They spent all night doing it. Daytime now, they're just washing and mending their nets. That's what they're doing.

Christ says, "Oh, I know it's daytime, we've just preached here this morning, it's high noon, whatever, let's go out fishing now." No, that ain't gonna work. I know you're really smart when it comes to spiritual things, but I don't think you understand how fishing works. But master, we took nothing and toiled all night, but at your word, I'll let down the net.

And when they had done this, they enclosed a large number of fish and the nets were breaking. They signaled to their partners, we assume that's James and John who were in the other boat. Andrew was probably in Peter's boat along with Jesus. They said, "Come and help us." They filled the boats up with fish. It was just amazing. The fish were jumping in the boat out of the net and the boats were so laden with fish they began to sink.

When Simon Peter saw it, he high-fived Jesus and said, "Would you go fishing with me every day? This is great, we'll make a fortune." No. After that amazing catch of fish, the very counter-intuitive response instead of high-fiving and rejoicing in the wonderful bounty, he says, "Depart from me. Get away from me. Leave me." Why? Because what you just did says something about you, and because it says something about you, it reveals something about me. I'm a sinful person. Depart from me, I'm a sinful man, oh Lord.

Something else that's harder to see in our English text, but look in verse number 5. "Master, we toiled all night." Circle that word. That's an unusual word for the New Testament because usually we see this word in verse number 8, the last word of verse 8: "Lord." That's the Greek word *kurios* which is usually the word we see when we're seeing someone talk to Jesus Christ. When we see the Old Testament quoted where we see the word Yahweh in the Hebrew text, you saw in the Greek text you saw it written *kurios*.

This was a big word. The word master? Different word. It's the word chief, boss, captain. No disrespect in that. He's not like, "Hey chief, okay if you say so master." And then you see "away from me, I'm a sinful man, oh Lord." Something's happening here obviously. Counter-intuitive response, sees his own sinfulness, amazed and astonished at what Christ had just proven about his authority.

Two things: stand in awe. There's something about the power and authority of Christ that makes Peter go "wow." And when you see Christ for who he is, there's something that happens to your view of yourself. You need to be humbled. If you don't see those two things happening in your life, then maybe you're still a part of the crowd.

Maybe you're just in the stage of attraction and interest. Real Christianity, which is the kind of Christianity which grants eternal life and forgiveness, always necessitates understanding who Christ is in terms of his authority and power and who I am in relation to that: a sinful person.

Every conversion has to consider, let's start with the awe part of it, the lordship of Christ. The power. I mean think about it. You are out there fishing, hoping these little small-brained fish will swim right into your net. You tried all night with all your skill, couldn't do it. Here's Christ, simple word: "do this," and all these small-brained fish it seems from every corner of the Sea of Galilee swim into your net. He has power, as Psalm 8 says, over everything, even the fish of the sea. There's a kind of exercise of authority that makes him go "wow. Away from me. Can't be in your presence."

That reveals something about himself. I'm a sinful man. There's the humility that always comes in the wake of that kind of vision of the great power of the triune God. Why does it do that? Well, before I answer that, think about how often we see that happening. You look all through the Old Testament, visions that Daniel had. Think of Isaiah. Isaiah chapter 6, you know that, we don't need to take time to turn there but you know that passage don't you?

52-year reign of Uzziah, which by the way in times of prosperity like Uzziah's reign as we read about in Chronicles and Kings, it always leads to a kind of complacency spiritually and everybody feels safe and their God becomes domesticated when everything's good. I'm speaking to 21st-century American Christians now. And when God gets domesticated as it did in the reign of King Uzziah, 50-year reign, people start to think wrongly about God, even the pastors of the day if you will.

And Isaiah has a vision in the year that King Uzziah died. And he sees the Lord, you remember the statement, high and exalted, lifted up, sitting on his throne, surrounded by seraphim calling out to one another, "Cool, hip and fun is the Lord God Almighty." You know the passage, is that what it said? Oh no, that's the wrong version of Christianity.

Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. After that scene, thresholds shake, smoke fills the temple, train of his robe fills it, everybody's freaking out. What does Isaiah do? What's his first word out of his mouth? "Woe to me. I'm ruined. I'm lost. Because I am a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips." He sees his sin. Do you see the pattern? Whenever you see God for who he is, you start to see yourself for who you are.

It's like you hanging out at the beach with everybody. We put on our beach clothes and we hang out at the beach and then all of a sudden we realize we're not at the beach at all. We're teleported to the most fancy, regal wedding reception we've ever been to. Everybody's in black ties and bowties and you're sitting there in your swim trunks. And they're coming up to you, "Welcome sir, how are you tonight?" Well, how do you feel? You felt fine when you were with us at the beach. Now you get into the presence of something that's absolutely different, you start recognizing self-consciously "look at me, I'm totally unworthy to be here." That's the picture. The God that we are to relate to brings a kind of humility and contrition that shows us our sin.

Woe to me, I'm unclean. And you remember God's response there? Seraphim flies over, takes a coal with tongs from the altar, brings it over to Isaiah, touches his lips, says, "Your guilt is gone, it's relieved, it's forgiven, your sin has been atoned." Forgiveness.

Listen, real conversion, not the fleshly kind of "I want to sign up to be pro-Jesus," but the kind that really starts here in our heart is a kind that includes that kind of contrition and brokenness before God. You been there yet? If not, maybe you're just part of the crowd. Real conversion brings that kind of contrition that cries out in our own sinfulness for the forgiveness of God.

You know the next thing that happens in verse 8 of Isaiah 6? He says, "Whom shall I send and who will go for us?" God says from the throne. Do you remember what Isaiah's very famous terse response is to that? "Here am I, send me."

The response of someone who's been truly humbled by the authority and greatness of God, stood in awe of Christ, they're always ready to do whatever God asks them to do. Is that how our passage ends? Middle of verse 10 and Jesus said to Simon, "Hey, don't be afraid. I got work for you to do. From now on you'll be catching people. I direct these small-brained fish into your nets, I'm going to take these big-brained people and bring them into your preaching ministry and I'm going to have you win people for me." And when they had brought their boats to the land, verse 11, they'd left everything. They left everything and followed him.

Now I know you think, "Well, they were just fishermen." That was his career. That was his job. That was his boat. Those were his nets. He left it all. Sacrifice. Service. When it comes to your conversion, if it's real, the thing that will be evident and obvious and everyone will see this is your stepping up for service and sacrifice.

One of the reasons you can know you're a part of the crowd is that you just sit there as a part of the crowd and you're not known for sacrifice for Christ and service to Christ. No one sees that. You just go about your work every week. You're not involved. I don't have time to get involved. You don't have time to get involved? If you're not a servant of Christ, if you aren't seen as someone sacrificing things you could have and saying no to those to do things for Christ, then there's something missing here.

1 Thessalonians chapter 1, let's start in verse 4. For we know brothers loved by God that he has chosen you. How would you know that? How do you know they're not just part of the crowd that's kind of into Christ and interested in the teachings of Jesus? Verse 5, because our gospel came to you not only in word, it wasn't that you just sat there and took notes, but also in power. It did something in you and in the Holy Spirit he changed you with full conviction.

Would you describe Peter's encounter with Christ that way? Full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord because you received the word, here's something to highlight, in much affliction with the joy of the Holy Spirit. In much affliction with the joy of the Holy Spirit.

There's something counter-intuitive and paradoxical. You sign up to follow Christ, you receive the word, it brings hardship and trial and you don't say, "Well, that's tough, I can't do this anymore." You say, "Fine, I will joyfully endure the affliction." There's the sacrifice. Other things become less important and your service for Christ becomes the most important thing.

We call it around here ATAP. That little acronym, ATAP. What's that stand for? Anything, Any Place, Anytime. Anything, any place, anytime. That's what it means to come to Christ in repentant heart trusting in him as the King of Kings. Anything.

Interesting this passage that we're reading here in Luke chapter 5, though Luke doesn't record it, there is a little scene, a little appendix in the back of the Gospel of John, John chapter 21, where after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, Peter because of his failure I believe in Caiaphas's courtyard and his feelings of insecurity about God and being inferior and "I just can't do this," instead of shepherding the people of God, instead of teaching and tending to the people of God, he goes out fishing again on the same lake, probably with one of the same boats that his old fishing crew used to have, and he went out and said, "I'm not going to do it, I'm going to go fishing."

And then amazingly Christ shows up, post-resurrection appearance on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. I love this. Cooking fish for breakfast. He calls out to Peter, "Hey put your nets on the other side." You can see the little tiny silhouette there on the shore. "Put your nets on the other side of the boat." Peter does it. Huge catch of fish. Exactly what took place here when he was converted.

He hauls it in. He realizes it's God. He doesn't even direct the boat to land. You remember what happens? He jumps in the water and swims toward that little person on the shore: Christ. And he gets there and they have that classic discussion. "Do you love me Peter?" "Yeah." "Well then feed my sheep. I told you what to do. You're not going to be a fisherman. Do you love me Peter?" "Yeah." "Feed my sheep, tend my lambs. Peter, I know you'd rather be a fisherman now, but do you really, really like me a lot? Do you love me?" "You know all things. I'm sad that you would ask me a third time." "Feed my sheep."

Anything. You may be like Peter, at some point you may say "I don't want to do that." Anything means you're willing to do whatever it is God asks you to do. If he wants you to leave behind your spreadsheets and Excel program to do something else, you're saying "Whatever it is, anything."

Any place, all you got to do is think about Jonah. He was willing to be a preacher for God, he was willing to do the work God wanted him to do, he just "don't want to do it in Nineveh please." Remember that? Some of you may say that: "I'll serve you as long as I can stay in this zip code, I kind of like it here in Orange County." You know what? When you come to Christ you lay down everything. I'll do anything and I'll do it anywhere.

Anytime. Can't help but think of Moses. Moses when he was 40 years old, prime of his life, he goes "I'm ready, I'll serve you, I will lead the people out of Egypt." And God says "No, not now." That frustrated him. You know how the story went. He leaves the country of Egypt as a fugitive. He goes and becomes a shepherd. Gets real good at it for 40 years.

Now he's 80. Burning bush. Angel of the Lord speaks to him. "Hey, I want you to deliver the people from Egypt." "I would have done that when I was 40. Don't want to do it now." He argued with God. Remember that? God gets real angry at him. Says "I don't care what your timetable is, you've got to do this on my timetable." Anything, any place, anytime. Peter, Jonah, Moses, however you'd like to remember this. What God is looking for in your heart is a kind of change from the inside out.

The memorable words of Jim Elliot come to mind at this point, who not only gave up his career to serve on the mission field, but he ended up giving his life. But remember his famous line: "He is no fool who loses what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."

Dave Druey: Not a waste of a life but a wise investment. What an awesome way to look at living for Christ. You're listening to Pastor Mike Fabarez here on Focal Point. Today's message was from a portion of a sermon titled "Curiosity and Real Conversion." To hear more, check out the complete version at focalpointradio.org.

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Got a question of your own for Pastor Mike? Well, just hit the ask tab on our website or reach out through Facebook at facebook.com/pastormike. Your question could end up on a future program. Pastor Mike also goes live every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 1:00 PM central. Just text LIVE to 90398 to get notified. Watch at focalpointradio.org/live or catch it on the free Focal Point app. We look forward to having you there.

Well, I'm Dave Druey, we'll see you again next time as we continue exploring God's word right here on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.